Auto Shifter Cable Adjustment

[platboy]

Hey All - I just installed a B&M Quicksilver shifter in my Dart (360/727) from the old column shift. Problem is, when it is adjusted to go into park, there is not enough travel in the shifter to ratchet to 1st - (well it ratchets to 1st, but it doesn't actually push the cable quite far enough for the tranny to click into gear). And when its adjusted to go into 1st, it won't go into park.

Now I removed the park-stop pin in the shifter to get it to go the little bit more into park, and now the shifts are all messed up - It thinks its a 4-speed auto now ie: when your in 1st, you have to ratchet it forward twice to get into second, and the same when in drive - twice down to get to second. Now this is not a great drama since I can drive my car for the first time time in 4 months, but I'd really like to get it working right.

Anyone else had this problem, and if so, how'd you fix it??
Cheers, James.

[64dartwagon]

Does the shifter have the right number of detents? As in shifter positions for a three speed. I'm wondering if you have a detent plate for a 4speed trans. This might be the prob.

[platboy]

No its the right 3 speed one, cos it was operating correctly before I adjusted it ie: the D - 2 - 1 in the correct amount of shifts.

[dwc43]

Welcome to the world of b&m junk. The crappiest shifters and tranny parts to hit the streets. Seen more failures from this stuff than any other brand. I'd say they sent you a cable that's wayyyy to short. Great quality control aint it? I'd toss it and get a Hurst V matic or quarter stick. Ten times better shifter.

[platboy]

The cable is way long enough - it seems to be the distance between Park and 1st is too far on the box. I had a similar problem with the column shift, and was hoping the cable shift would fix it... is there an adjustment in the tranny to change the amount of travel between gears..??

[dwc43]

Not that I am aware of.Sounds more like an adjustment issue. Check the arm mount on top of the tranny and make sure it's seated and the bolt is tight.

[mhenesian]

Hi Platboy,

Nothing wrong with B&M shifters. Dwc43 is very wrong on this one. Lifetime warranty except for burned cables. Cable routing is a problem on most Mopars with headers. The Hurst shifters are equally bad in this regard. The shifter cable must be shielded from header heat or it will bind up - causing tightness and excess backlash and just the problems you've described.

However, there is another way to have this problem - even with a new cable and an excellent installation.

The "detent" lever inside the tranny moves the shift valve in the valve body and is usually tightly connected (mechanically ? I don't remember) to a ~3/4" cylindrical shaft that attaches to the manual shift lever located outside the case.

If the "detent" lever gets loose on the shaft, this will cause enough backlash to cause the problems you've described. This will also cause the factory shifter to be out of adjustment, just as you mentioned ! The shifter will seem to have insufficient "travel" to reach either the Park detent or the First gear detent. On an older 727 valve body, I had to silver solder the detent lever to the shaft to eliminate this problem to get the shifter to work all the gears and park. Eventually I replaced the entire valve body since I never trusted the silver solder.

I really think this is your problem, but you'll have to drop the pan and examine the detent lever operation to see it. It's not connected to the tightness of the manual shift lever on the shaft.

Mark H.

[platboy]

Hi Mark - thankyou for the info. I agree it's a problem on my part, either the box or adjustment cos the shifter itself seems fine. I will get under there again Saturday morning and check it out. I am thinking of getting a manual valve-body installed - would this cure the problem if the adjustment problem is internal?? Cheers, James.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by mhenesian

Hi Platboy,

Nothing wrong with B&M shifters. Dwc43 is very wrong on this one. Lifetime warranty except for burned cables.
Mark H.

Actually I am right on in this matter. No tellin how many of them pieces of junk I have had to replace. Last one was a quick silver that did not want to shift out of second. THe shifter that is, not the tranny. I don't have much use for there junk.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by platboy

Hi Mark - thankyou for the info. I agree it's a problem on my part, either the box or adjustment cos the shifter itself seems fine. I will get under there again Saturday morning and check it out. I am thinking of getting a manual valve-body installed - would this cure the problem if the adjustment problem is internal?? Cheers, James.

It could if you had trouble in the valve body. One thing though, you don't want to run one of htose on the street if it does not have low band apply. And never down shift to first until you have stopped. Good way to blow a up a tranny if you don't do it this way.

[platboy]

So if I get a manual V/B built and installed for me,I should speciy that I want to be able to shift down to first while on the move?? Cheers, J.

[dwc43]

You nver down shift to first on the move no matte who's VB you buy. Always come to a stop first. It's just extra safety to get one that holds the low band when it shifts to low. Check with TCI at www.tciauto.com and they should be able to help you with what you need.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Welcome to the world of b&m junk. The crappiest shifters and tranny parts to hit the streets. Seen more failures from this stuff than any other brand.

Another unsupportable opinion disguised as fact.

You nver (sic) down shift to first on the move no matte (sic) who's (sic)VB you buy. Always come to a stop first.

Total nonsense based on a total lack of understanding.

Take note of platboy's comment: "I had a similar problem with the column shift, and was hoping the cable shift would fix it..."

This suggests that the problem is in the transmission. I would follow the advice given by mhenesian and check the transmission shift lever for a loose shift shaft. This is a fairly common problem and will cause the symptoms noted. The shift shaft is splined to the roostercomb and swedged in place, when the shaft works loose there will be lost motion regardless of the shifter used.

[Dick]

Dang, John...................is there ANY Mopar part you haven't taken pics of?

[platboy]

Hi John - thanks for the pic, its all starting to make a sense. I haven't pulled a gearbox apart before, so I might leave it to the shop.

BTW, I didn't know you shouldn't shift to first on the move... I've been doing it for ages, could this be the problem????

[dwc43]

It's not a problem on a stock valve body, but it is on a manual VB.

[platboy]

Okay, that's alright then... why is this a problem on a manual V-B??

[John Kunkel]

It's not a problem on any valve body, as usual dwc dispenses bogus info.

With a fully automatic VB or a manual VB with low band apply it's not a good idea to downshift to 1st at a high rate of speed (above 25 mph). The factory owner's manual will tell you it's OK to shift down to 1st at 25 mph or less when additional engine braking is needed.

Downshifting to 1st with a manual VB with no low band apply won't cause any harm unless you get back hard on the throttle again and shock the sprag.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by platboy

Okay, that's alright then... why is this a problem on a manual V-B??

A good way to cause the sprag or what most call an overrunning clutch to fail which causes a nice explosion and a large whole in the tranny tunnel.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

A good way to cause the sprag or what most call an overrunning clutch to fail which causes a nice explosion and a large whole in the tranny tunnel.

Explain why, don't be afraid to get real technical.

I'll await your usual silence.

[platboy]

Okay, no worries - I haven't been doing anything too ridiculous then... thanks for all the info - its much apprciated. Cheers, James.