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  #1  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:09 AM
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Smile 408 Break-In Diesel Oil Weight

I’m going to use diesel oil and GM EOS to break in my 408. My options are:
Delo 15W40
Delo 30
Delo 40

What weight should I use
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:17 AM
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The EOS is a good product.

BUT
I think the diesel oil is a mistake. Some like it because of the different content, BUT I think it is too thick. You want thinner oil at startup for run in. Like 5w 30 or 10w30. IMHO

Once' you've done the initial run in you can use one of those diesel oils if you like, but stick with a multi grade.

Straight weight oils are for lawn mowers. My .02
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:44 AM
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They make DELO right down to 0W20..........

Me?

I would run 15W40........................

Aeroshell OIL W 65, is what I used to use, before I gave up, and used whatever was cheap, for break in, or synthetic...........
If you were to run a straight weight, I would run 20W.

There is another argument, that thin oil is bad for break in, because it doesn't protect the hotter spots of a new engine, makes sense to me.

Truth is, you could break it in, on walmart oil, with pantene pro V shampoo, and be in the same boat in the end.
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2006, 04:39 AM
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I use 30 weight, non detergent oil, with 2 stp's.
My buddy just had his race motor dynoed and they said they used the rotella oil with the eos chev lube. This was a race motor though, but I thought that was interesting.
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  #5  
Old 10-16-2006, 12:30 PM
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Default Diesel oil and engine breakin.

I assume that the reason for the diesel oil and EOS is that you're concerned with camshaft breakin with flat tappets. I think that this is a valid concern. Iam also assuming that you have prelubed the engine and are only using the outer springs in the case of dual valve springs. Current diesel oils already have enough zinc additive for scuff protection, so EOS may be redundant. Since there isn't any real load on the engine during the initial twenty minute run in I don't see the need for a heavy oil. I think that the quicker you can get oil ciculating the better. 10W30 should be fine for this. It's also worth rembering that ring seating is important as well. With this in mind a straight weight non-detergent oil [ 10,20,or 30 weight depending on temperature where you live] with 4-6 oz. of EOS might be the best choice of all. Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2006, 07:59 PM
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Aeroshell, OW65, red can. Non detergent, no synthetics, nice and clean....................
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2006, 10:22 PM
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I used Pennzoil Long Life 15-40 (a Diesel spec oil) for break-in and ever since - 5 years and 25000 miles on a mild street 360 as well as in my old air-cooled Suzuki bike. No complaints.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2006, 03:47 AM
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I've now switched over to Shell 15-40 wt Rotella Diesel engine oil. For cam break-in add 1-pt of STP. Use the Mopar or cam manufacturers break-in lube on the cam lobes and lifter faces. STP on the push rod ends, rocker arms, oil pump drive shaft and gear, etc. I know this is "old school", but I've broken in two new cams with good results recently like this. Also the Rotella seems to seal the rings better (less blowby out of the PCV hole in the valve cover). Also better oil pressure when engine is really hot. After initial breakin, and oil/filter change, I'd stay with the 15-40 wt Rotella for at least the first 3000 miles before switching to your favorite oil,

Mark H.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:53 PM
451Mopar 451Mopar is offline
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I have to install a new cam, and I have been concerned about this too.
I have the Hughes EOS and cam lube, but I haven't decided if I should use Rotella Diesel oil, or "Racing" motor oil. Both are supposed to have higher levels of ZDDP than regular motor oil.
I just found the June 2006 Hot Rod article on this, pages 126-130.
Numbers are content by percentage of weight.
Shell Rotell T - Zinc = 0.140, Phosphorous = 0.130
Penzoil 20W-50 Racing - Zinc = 0.196, Phosphorous = 0.180
Quacker State Q Racing - Zinc = 0.200, Phosphorous = 0.180
Compared to:
API SM (2005) - Zinc = 0.087, Phosphorous = 0.080 (Current spec)
API SJ/SL (2001.2004) - Zinc = 0.110, Phosphorous = 0.100
API SH (1996) - Zinc = 0.130, Phosphorous = 0.120 (old spec)
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2006, 07:45 PM
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Thanks, 451Mopar !

Good info ! I guess we should stay away from newer API SM oils - including synthetics,

Just gota have that ZDDP (STP is loaded with it, but I can't find out how much ?),

Mark H.
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  #11  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:37 PM
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Try the API website. There's lots of tech stuff there. Although it's too tech for this o.f., one thing I found is that diesel oils do have more additives, probably why someone recommended it to me when I built the 360. Also, the first letter "S" in the API label stands for "Service" (pass. car gasoline engines" and "C" for Commercial (Diesel) engines. I always thought they stood for "S"park ignition or "C"ompression ignition engines, which is kind of true anyway. And there's quite a difference in current "S" oils compared to older specs with regards to additives and viscosity, as 451 points out.
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:53 PM
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Some good posts about the oils. It's true,you need the Zinc phosphate. Delo 400 has it(15-40 and straight 30),Rotella has it and so do the racing oils. ALL other conventional motor oils do not have it! These oils are specifically designed for roller cammed engines. DO NOT USE IT!!! Not a believer? Call any cam manufacturer and ask.
If you are running moly rings,they will seat almost instantly,if you have the correct finish. For cast rings,the diesel oil works good.
Priming the pump is always a good thing and for a Big Block, filling the oil filter will aid in getting the system primed quicker.
The wrong oil,too much spring,not enough pre-lube(I like Red Line Synthetic) and too much screwing around to get the engine fired(distributor 180* out,plug wires on wrong,timing off,no fuel-prime that too) is what makes cams fail. Measure twice,cut once.....or,check,check,doublecheck,then fire it.
After break-in with moly rings(since the cam is the only thing your are breaking in),you are free to run synthetic.
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2006, 12:34 AM
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Will synthetic hurt cam break in? I have been breaking in my own motors with Amsoil right from the first start.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:29 PM
451Mopar 451Mopar is offline
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What happed to me, I broke my 360 in about 4 or 5 years ago, and had no problems. Then I switch to Moble-1 10W-30 Synthetic oil and ran the engine for several years. Then I let the engine sit for several months (about 1/2 year), and fired it up with out pre-lubing it and I noticed some slight ticking.
Over the next month the ticking got louder, and when I re-adjusted the valves, I found my #3 Exhaust lube seemed to be loosing lift. So now I am going to pull the engine and replace the cam, and also inspect the bearings for possable dammage.
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2006, 07:56 PM
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TK,you got me curious about the synthetic for break in,so I called Comp Cams-just got off the phone with them.
He said NO on synthetic for break-in. Yes on Delo 400,Rotella and racing type oils with the zinc-phosphate. He said after break-in,synthetics are fine. He likes Royal Purple($$$),but said any synthetic will do.
I asked him about 451's problem,he said to prime the engine,or pre-lube the lobes after letting it sit for extended periods.

Hmm,what kind of synthetic will I use for the winter? 10-30 probably.
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  #16  
Old 10-20-2006, 10:05 PM
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A bit off the subject, but I'm looking at re-starting mine after a year parked with clean oil. I've usually pre-lubed by pulling plugs and spinning it with the starter until pressure shows , then replacing plugs and firing. Any comments?
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2006, 10:31 PM
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Get yourself a primer shaft. It can be had from Summit and many others and cheap. You take out your distributor,keep track of where the rotor is pointing,and stab the shaft down into the oil pump. Hook up your drill to it and pull the trigger. Not knowing whether you have a small block,or big block,i couldn't tell you which way to go. So try both ways until you feel the pump working and you will feel it(I burned up a drill one time doing this!!!). Run it for a few seconds(while pumping) and that should do. But I suggest pre-lubing the cam lobes,which means work. At least pour in some stp.
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  #18  
Old 10-20-2006, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
TK,you got me curious about the synthetic for break in,so I called Comp Cams-just got off the phone with them.
He said NO on synthetic for break-in. Yes on Delo 400,Rotella and racing type oils with the zinc-phosphate. He said after break-in,synthetics are fine. He likes Royal Purple($$$),but said any synthetic will do.
I asked him about 451's problem,he said to prime the engine,or pre-lube the lobes after letting it sit for extended periods.

Hmm,what kind of synthetic will I use for the winter? 10-30 probably.
Did he or you mention anything about additives like STP or EOS?
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2006, 11:46 PM
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Sorry Dust,I didn't mention them and neither did he. He was adamant about no synthetic during break-in,however.
Anyone can call-1-800-999-0853(Comp Cam help)
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2006, 07:12 PM
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I used Rotella T. My buddy used Rotella and EOS for some extra Zinc. I am glad to hear you are breaking it in!

Rob
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2006, 08:49 PM
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Huh.
From dealing with diesel engines that run 24 hours a day.........(Lots of em)
Rotella would not be my choice.
Delo, Mobil, and valvoline seem to be about equal.

As far as the cam breaking in on synthetic, who knows........none of mine have had problems, oh well.
I really think, if a cam goes flat, a cam goes flat. I have had regrind cams, never broke them in, and they are fine, then, I have broke cams in perfectly, with Valvoline premium blue, and had them lose a lobe. (comp, go figure)

Cheaper sythetic oils, dont have the storage additives (anti corrosion) that a dinosaur oil does, Amsoil marine, and royal purple products do, however. When it comes to synthetics, I believe in royal purple, or amsoil, all the way.
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2006, 11:45 PM
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Why not Rotella, tk?

torch
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2006, 03:31 PM
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We have been using Diesel generators, (Lister) for power since we first moved here. Every time we do get power, people come with it, and we moved again. I for the first time in my life, am getting power where i am moving, next summer. Anyway. I also work on a lot of other people's generators, and know a few generator geniuses, so to speak. (Who chose DELO) Anyway. Mine, for example, runs 24-7, shut off the first week, and check the oil, second week to change the oil.
Mine, on valvoline premium blue, never needs oil to be added, never has. Either did the twin cylinder I ran before it. (before fuel prices went up)
I aquired a case of 15w40 rotella, so I decided to use it.
At the first oil check, it was dangersly low on oil. SO I added some, and checked it again, twice more before the next week, I had to add oil. I thought I had killed my Lister, or something. This went on for a month and a half, untill all of the Rotella was gone.
Switched back to Valvoline, and............never needed any add.
Tells me the rotella was breaking down too fast.
Others who run generators 24-7, and work on them for a living, reccomend DELO, and Premiumblue, and, of course, delvac. (My twin drank del-vac, but not as bad as the rotella.
I believe oil drinking is directly related to oil breakdown.

That be why, I dont have enough time to throw in the fifty or so stories of similar observations, just my own.
Oh, on the North Slope, they ran DELO, and Amsoil. Turbines got Royal Purple.

I am sure, for break in, rotella is fine though, but, me? DELO, or Valvoline.
(Endorsed by Cat, and Cummins.)
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Old 10-22-2006, 05:42 PM
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Well, I can see your point now. I have run Rotella in both of my diesel trucks since I got them, with no problems. I tried Valvoline 15w40 once in the '91, and didn't like it. I got a lot of fumes from the crankcase vent that really smelled bad. Niether one had a consumption problem, but I just had to wonder what was burning off from the Valvoline that stunk so bad.

torch
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:59 PM
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DELO even has a worse smell, I can smell a fresh DELO change a mile away. And yes, I can smell the Lister after a fresh change too.
I run Valvoline PB extreme. (5w40 synthetic) It has no smell, and the Lister, and the Cummins loves it.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2006, 10:36 PM
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I like Rotella as it is an inexpensive motor oil with a very high Zinc znd phospate level. I run it in my 408 for a couple years now, no problems ever. It will be going into my 440 as well.

Rotella 15W30
Zinc : 1218
Phos : 1115
Royal Purple has more of but is very expensive in comparison.
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Old 10-28-2006, 09:42 PM
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When you guys mention 'STP', you mean the stuff that comes in a little blue bottle labeled 'STP oil treatment'? It's like half a quart?
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:54 PM
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Yeah,STP comes in a little bottle. When running A/FX years ago with a 392,we blocked off the oil to the rockers,had the valve covers on a three wing bolt setup and would have the thinner type stp in a squirt can and we'd squirt the rockers after every pass.Anyway......
I just changed my oil to 10w-30 Royal Purple and had to lower my idle! It's the best,hands down. But at $8.10 a quart,it had better be.
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  #29  
Old 10-29-2006, 04:08 AM
451Mopar 451Mopar is offline
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I was just on Crane Cams web page the other day and they have a notice/information on engine oils for flat tappet cams and break-in.
So far, I have seen Crane and Hughes recommend not running synthetic oil in engines with flat tappet cams. They mentioned two items:
One was the lifter dosen't rotate correctly, and that the synthetic runs off the lobes if the engine is stored for a long time?
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  #30  
Old 10-30-2006, 05:53 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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I used Mobil 1 to break in the 340 engine, and after two years there are no negatives to report. This is with the Hughes cam.
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