Best carb for 383

[ravenenv]

I have pulled the intake manifold on my Satellite's 383 to replace the gasket. While I have it out, I am considering replacing the carb. Can someone give me some feedback on the best carb that worked with this engine. I have seen specifications/drawings that indicate both Holley and Carter 4B were used on this engine, so I was unsure how this engine cam stock. I am unsure as to whether to go with restoring the original carb model to the engine or whether someone has had better experience with a more current carb.

Any thoughts are apprecieated.

The Neophyte

1970 Plymouth Satellite

[dwc43]

If it's a numbers matching car, by all means keep the original carb or the value of the car suffers quite a bit. If not, I'd put a stock Thermoquad that came on the 400. It's 850 cfm and it has better throttle response than any of the holley carbs and it's a little bigger than the afb avs carbs.

[ravenenv]

Negative - definitely not numbers matching. Car was stock with 318 - 383 was put in at some point in past.

What is cfm short for? Told ya'll I was a neophyte. Also, where is an outlet for Thermoquad.

Thanks for the info.

[dwc43]

Cubic Feet per Minute is the way you measure how much air flow a carb will flow.

I build them, Demon Sizzler at Thermoquads.com builds them, you can get new ones at your Local Advance Auto Parts too. Probably at other parts stores as well. The big block carbs are 850 and the small blocks are 800. I run a big block carb on our race cars when the rules permit. Best carb ever made.

[Rust collector]

The thermoquad was a carter carb

[Chuzz]

My oldest brother had a 68 RoadRunner with a 383 Commando. It had a Carter AFB four-barrell on it and it would scream. Had one hell of a nice sound when you kicked it too.

[ehostler]

Originally Posted by dwc43

you can get new ones at your Local Advance Auto Parts too. Probably at other parts stores as well.

WRONG! You can get a refurbished one at your local auto parts store. You cannot get a new on as they stopped making them over 20 years a go.

[ehostler]

Anyone that recommends a carb of any size without knowing the specifics of your engine and use of the car, is just posting to increase their post count.

I had a 1970 Challenger with the original 383 2bbl in it. The engine was bone stock. I installed a set of heads that were polished and ported. They had a rather nice valve job done. On top of that, I put on an Edelbrock Torker intake. I topped that with a Holley 3310 - 750 Vacuum secondary. That thing ran wonderful. It even gave me a best of about 20 MPG, while I was running 100+ MPH on I-80 through Nevada.

[Crank]

Originally Posted by ehostler

Anyone that recommends a carb of any size without knowing the specifics of your engine and use of the car, is just posting to increase their post count.

I had a 1970 Challenger with the original 383 2bbl in it. The engine was bone stock. I installed a set of heads that were polished and ported. They had a rather nice valve job done. On top of that, I put on an Edelbrock Torker intake. I topped that with a Holley 3310 - 750 Vacuum secondary. That thing ran wonderful. It even gave me a best of about 20 MPG, while I was running 100+ MPH on I-80 through Nevada.

i agree good post

[72Challenger]

I mostly agree with Ed on this. There is one thing though, and that is that the AVS and Thermoquad Carters, and the vacuum secondary Holleys like the 3310, won't hurt you if you go too big (within reason.) That's because the secondaries won't kick in until the engine can use them (assuming that you've tuned them correctly.) A very common hop-up trick for the 340 was to put a big-block carb on them, they still ran the same at idle and cruise, but had a better top-end because of the better flow at full-throttle. Remember that a (4-bbl) carb is rated for flow at 1.5 inches of vacuum, but that's too much vacuum if you're trying to get your best possible performance. And at a lower vacuum, the flow is less. I know that my 340 should, by all the formulas, use a 650 carb, and I tried one. I go faster with the 750 (3310 Holley, carefully modified and tuned). Idle and cruising aren't affected, because until I can actually use the secondaries, it's still a 2-barrel. I personally prefer the Holley because there are a lot more parts out there to tune it with, and I know how. But either carb can be made to work well if you know what you're doing.

[ravenenv]

This is awesome info guys - much appreciated and intimidating. Let me back a little by asking what would be a good carb for a beginner such as myself who is learing the ins and outs of carb adjustment and mostly interested in a good runner that I do not plan on racing or big power. I think I would most interested in a carb that I can get parts for easily, can be adjusted easily and holds its adjustment well.

[a440plus6®]

If you decide to go with orig. AVS I've got lots of them. Can get you correct part number and prolly date code.

[dave571]

Originally Posted by ravenenv

This is awesome info guys - much appreciated and intimidating. Let me back a little by asking what would be a good carb for a beginner such as myself who is learing the ins and outs of carb adjustment and mostly interested in a good runner that I do not plan on racing or big power. I think I would most interested in a carb that I can get parts for easily, can be adjusted easily and holds its adjustment well.

Easy to adjust , going on a mostly stock 383.

Well, I'd go with an out of the box edelbrock performer 600cfm.

First off, the TQ will need an adapter plate, or a different manifold.
Second, a reman or refurbished carb is just that. A used carb with some new parts on it. A new carb will give you better service, IMHO. Some love the TQ, and I have never understood why. To each thier own.

I have had great sucess with demon carbs, but would not recomend one for someone who wants to throw it on and go, and has virtually no carb experience. I have found the eddy's good for that.

An eddy 600 will bolt straight on to your existing 4 bbl manifold, and will still reatain a stock looking configuration for the year of your car.

A 750 eddy will work too, but if the motor is mostly stock, and won't see a lot of rev's, you don't need it. my .02

[rumblefish360]

I agree with Dave on this one a whole lot. The stock carb was a small Carter. About 600 - 630 cfm was all it was given. The AFB or AVS models from Edelbrock work well on a stock engine. There really not hard to understand. Nor is the Holley for that matter.

Just follow the instructions that come with the carb and you will be absoulty fine. The only difference between the AFB and AVS is a spring loaded secondary air door that can be made to open sooner or later via a screwdriver that tightens up a spring.

[dodger1]

I agree with dave and rumble but I would add that the AVS style eddy might be the better call as it does provide a little more flexibility for someone starting out, without being too difficult to plug in and go from scratch. (Of course, I like my TQ after several years of figuring it out, but then again I have a boxfull of stuff for them) Don't forget to get the Chrysler throttle linkage adapter if you do go for an Edelbrock.

[DavidA]

I put an Eddy 750cfm performer carb on my 383 and it was completely hassle free. Runs great straight out of the box. I may have over carbed a little but I did that on purpose since I plan swapping out the stock cam in the future.

Totally agree if you don't have much experience tuning carbs (& I don't) these work well

[Shaun]

Go with a Holley. They are the best. A 650 DP is perfect for a 383.
But without knowing your cam specs,your rear-end ratio,your tranny(manual,or auto) and your converter stall,it's a little hard to judge.
Double Pumpers normally work better on 4 Speed cars and Vacuum Secondaries usually work better on autos-but then there's a cubic inch(big cubes and high rpms) seperation between the two,along with a fully automatic vs. the manual valve body auto.

[72Challenger]

I would have to say that a double-pumper Holley is a horrible choice for someone who signs their post "The Neophyte."

I favor Holleys myself, but all things considered, the bolt-on-and-go aspect of the Edlebrock is a compelling arguement. I would not use a 600 however, that's a perfect size for a 318, not a 383. True, you won't use the extra 150 CFM driving around town. But it's a vacuum operated carb, you CAN'T go too big, and if you ever do decide to "see what this baby can do" you will appreciate the extra flow capacity.

[coupe32]

With a 3000 lb car, 350 gears and a 4 speed 340, which carb would be better? a 750 with vacuum secondaries or a 750 DP? Hydraulic Cam has power range of 1200 to 5000 RPM.

[rumblefish360]

Coup, 750 vaccum secondary

[rumblefish360]

I have to say, that a 750 is overkill for a 383. He mentioned no hotrod work, or hi gears or hi stall. I will have to error on the side of caution in making a suggestion for his engine. Afterall, the stock carbs on non-hi-po 383s were small Carters and a 600 or 650 cfm Holley. I'm not to good on remembering the Holley CFM.
I do not recall a big Carter on a 383 even in HI-PO engines. IF, IF I remember correctly, the Road Runners cam with the small Carters even then because I allways remember the Road runner owners saying they swapped out the 383 carb for the 440 carb and loved it. There cars were also allways a 3.91 - 4.30 gear ratio upgrade along with the regular list of bolt on goodies.

[a440plus6®]

You are correct, only the HP 440s came with the larger primary throttle plates.

[ravenenv]

As Challenger noted, someone signing Neophyte should be a good clue as to my technical prowess. Car is awesome and love working on it, just don't want to fubar it with a bad carb setup. Based on what I'm seeing and what I've read, a 750 cfm Eddy may be a good first choice for some in my situation - easy setup with minimal adjustment. I did note that a Chrysler adapter package must be available for the throttle linkage assembly - assume this is true. Looks like it is normally configured for chevy.

My car is an automatic (unsure of the model number) and the rear end is probably pretty tame (again unsure of the gears) - this an RH body style and configuration, so these generally won't setup for optimal power.

Thanks again for the info/help!

[rumblefish360]

this an RH body style and configuration and Neophyte

What do they mean?
The adapter part is a easy to bolt on attachment and realignes up the attachment for the cable and stud which you must reuse. Carter/Fed-mogual used to make the spec linkage for MoPars.

[mhenesian]

Hi Ravenenv,

Good posts above, everyone has their own opinions, mostly based on good/bad experiences. The stock 625 cfm Carter AVS and 600 cfm Holley carbs were excellent for a stock or magnum 383. A new Edelbrock 650 cfm AVS with the Mopar throttle adapter from Edelbrock would be my choice, but I've not tried one, yet. On my 440, I'd probably go with the 800 cfm model.

However, the stock carb on your '70 383 assuming it is a 4-barrel is most likely the Mopar version of the 600 cfm Holley with vacuum operated secondary throttles (List 6160-1, other numbers also). This is an excellent carb and if you have it, don't get rid of it. It's a valuable collectors piece today. It can be rebuilt with the right gasket set, and will perform very well. I know, I have one. The problem with this carb is that it takes a special set of metering block gaskets. Also, the vacuum diaphragm can does not use a check ball - the secondary spring is medium stiff.

Standard Holley metering block gaskets carried by most auto/speed shops won't work, even though the renew kit box will say that they should. If you use the wrong gasket, the carb will not have any fuel for the off idle to main fuel metering system transition - in other words a sudden stumble when you step on the gas. I had to punch an extra 3/16" hole in correct locations on left and right sides of a standard gasket to make it work. This took some detective work - not for a novice ! I had to dig through my old Holley books to study all the pictures of metering block gaskets and finally figured out the problem - after a week of frustration ! Any way, just beware. Have your Mopar Holley rebuilt by an expert with the correct Holley kit, if you decide to go that way,

Mark H.

(For a heavily modified 383 in a Satellite - big cam, gears, headers, 383 Torker manifold or better yet the Mopar M1, the 650 cfm Holley double-pumper or equivalent Proform, Quickfuel, etc. carb is the best - IMO and I agree with Shaun !)

(And for Coupe32, go with the 650 cfm Double-Pumper for your 340/4-spd with 3.55 gears. You won't look back ! A 750 cfm DP is too big and a 750 vac sec is hard to make operate correctly because your 340 won't move enough air below 5 grand. You'll never get the secondaries more than 1/2 open, even with the Yellow spring.)

[rusty duster]

Originally Posted by mhenesian

Hi Ravenenv,

Good posts above, everyone has their own opinions, mostly based on good/bad experiences. The stock 625 cfm Carter AVS and 600 cfm Holley carbs were excellent for a stock or magnum 383. A new Edelbrock 650 cfm AVS with the Mopar throttle adapter from Edelbrock would be my choice, but I've not tried one, yet. On my 440, I'd probably go with the 800 cfm model.

However, the stock carb on your '70 383 assuming it is a 4-barrel is most likely the Mopar version of the 600 cfm Holley with vacuum operated secondary throttles (List 6160-1, other numbers also). This is an excellent carb and if you have it, don't get rid of it. It's a valuable collectors piece today. It can be rebuilt with the right gasket set, and will perform very well. I know, I have one. The problem with this carb is that it takes a special set of metering block gaskets. Also, the vacuum diaphragm can does not use a check ball - the secondary spring is medium stiff.

Standard Holley metering block gaskets carried by most auto/speed shops won't work, even though the renew kit box will say that they should. If you use the wrong gasket, the carb will not have any fuel for the off idle to main fuel metering system transition - in other words a sudden stumble when you step on the gas. I had to punch an extra 3/16" hole in correct locations on left and right sides of a standard gasket to make it work. This took some detective work - not for a novice ! I had to dig through my old Holley books to study all the pictures of metering block gaskets and finally figured out the problem - after a week of frustration ! Any way, just beware. Have your Mopar Holley rebuilt by an expert with the correct Holley kit, if you decide to go that way,

Mark H.

(For a heavily modified 383 in a Satellite - big cam, gears, headers, 383 Torker manifold or better yet the Mopar M1, the 650 cfm Holley double-pumper or equivalent Proform, Quickfuel, etc. carb is the best - IMO and I agree with Shaun !)

(And for Coupe32, go with the 650 cfm Double-Pumper for your 340/4-spd with 3.55 gears. You won't look back ! A 750 cfm DP is too big and a 750 vac sec is hard to make operate correctly because your 340 won't move enough air below 5 grand. You'll never get the secondaries more than 1/2 open, even with the Yellow spring.)

You can modify the bleeds in the carb so the sec. will open fast and all the way and most likely will need a stronger spring to control bog.and a huge pump shot

[RR3834bbl]

You know, the Carter AVS was a respectable carb for its time, but it is interesting to note that in the late sixties, Chrysler Direct Connection engineers selected Holley Vacuum secondary carburetors as a performance upgrade in some of their performance recipes.

Check out these stats that I found in a 1969 Hot Rod magazine. In it, Direct Connection engineers upgrade a stock 383 engine to show how potent the 383 could be with simple bolt-on items that you could buy from the parts department of any Mopar dealer in the late sixties. This is a performance package known as “Package Stock” used on a stock 383 Road Runner; notice the Mopar part numbers:

1) Chrysler “284” hydraulic camshaft and matching lifter kit #3412004
2) Holley 780 CFM 3310-1 4-barrel carburetor #2836172
3) Edelbrock DP4B Dual Plane aluminum intake #2836149
4) Hooker Headers
5) Casler 7” cheater slicks

Then the late great Ronnie Sox ran the 69 383 Road Runner with the “Package Stock” performance upgrades through the quarter mile with the best time of- 13.60 @ 105.5, Which is pretty good considering that Ronnie also ran a stock 69 440 GTX through the quarter with the best time of 13.89 @ 102.32. Sure the 440 was bone stock, but it does go to show that a well tuned underdog 383 can hold its own against it’s big brothers.

Needless to say, I found the above listed Holley carburetor on eBay for $80 bucks and will be using it on my 383 Road Runner HP engine, a carburetor that was made famous in the muscle car era, and was approved of by Chrysler engineers. That’s good enough for me!

[72Challenger]

I frequently hear that a 3310 is not a performance carburetor because of the vacuum secondaries, or that being a 750, it is too big for a 340. I have not found either of these to be the case. I'm running a 3310 on my 340 which has been modified with a secondary metering block. I also added a quick change secondary spring kit. To be honest, I don't have any idea how far the secondaries open, but I do know what my manifold vacuum is under full throttle, and it stays below 1" all the way to 6800 RPM. So, even if the secondaries aren't opening all the way, they are open enough to give me enough airflow for maximum performance. Okay, but is it too big, the other argument against it? I tried a 650, and by about 5700 RPM manifold vacuum went above 1", so the 650 is too small for maximum top-end performance. Remember that the manufacturers measure flow at 1.5" vacuum, but at that amount of vacuum you are already holding the engine back from its full potential. If you want to maximize volumetric efficiency, you need a larger carb than the formulas will tell you that you need.

It is worth noting that the Holley web site has a carb selector application:

http://www.holley.com/applications/C...bSelection.asp

Using that, and putting my engine specs, it also picked the 3310 as the best carb for my app.

Okay, not everyone is going for all-out performance. So what should they use? For the absolute best fuel mileage and throttle response at low RPM a smaller carb will be better. But the beauty of the vacuum secondary is that it doesn't open until the airflow justifies it. True, a 600 has primaries of 1 9/16" while the 750 uses 1 11/16" primaries. That extra 1/8" diameter will have a tiny effect on mileage and drivability. So if you are going for the best streetability and don't care about maximum performance, a 600 fits the bill. But as Rumblefish pointed out, guys with 383s were very happy with a swap to the 440 carb. So in fact were guys with 340s. And they didn't have to be highly modified to see the improvement, mild mods were enough.

[rumblefish360]

For kicks, my 400 from 1978 is, well, pretty down on power compared to earlier 383's, but I wanted to try my 750 Carter AFB Comp. Series. It was a bit of a bear to get dailed in. I really didn't spend a whoile lot of time on it. I was fixing the T-Q to go back on.
I didn't like it so much. It was a bad choice for the engine, which even factory new IMO is dead on it's heals as far as performance is concerned.
The smaller size AVS did work very well though.

One note on MoPars suggestions from back in the day about carbs, the Holley, IMO, has and still has parts most anywhere up to and allmost includeing your local grocery store. (LOL)
The Carter is not bad for a "Stock Carb"
Who out there has gone from a Carter to a Holley with purple cams?
Any easier to tune them in? Idle charteristics?
Most dudes around here the are more serious about there cars, even if not racing, step up to a 4 coner idle system.

[dodger1]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Carter/Edelbrock carbs are NOT "vacuum controlled" but have an air valve above the mechanically operated secondary throttle plates that is forced open as air flow through the secondaries increases with engine speed. Holleys DO have vacuum-controlled secondaries, with (I think) the rate of opening set by a replaceable spring inside the vacuum can or "dashpot" that pulls the throttle plates open. The AVS (and TQ) has a spring controlling the air door opening point, with a vacuum dashpot controlling the RATE of opening on a TQ. The AFB has bob-weights on the secondary air doors which aren't adjustable on the car but otherwise work the same way. I'm not pretending to be a carb expert by any means, but then again lets remember that neither is ravenenv. The 650 Edelbrock thunder (AVS) for me would be the easiest carb to go with and still have some (easy) adjustment. My 2 cents (Canadian funds, of course!!)