Quick wheel pattern question.......

[Dr. Righteous]

Lug pattern of a '72 Plymouth Satellite?

Have a spare set of wheels and tires but they are 5x4.5

[dave571]

5 on 4.5" is correct for a 72 sattelite

[midmomopar]

This might be of help to someone in the future:

http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse...._Reference.cfm


For some reason they're all given in metric dimensions, but it can be converted or used for comparison from one vehicle to another.

[pishta]

And dont believe all the Ebay garbage about 5 on 4 = 5 X 100mm. It doesnt. 4 inch = 101.6mm and it does make a difference as the conical lug nuts seek their own center of the rim bolt pattern hole. The 5 on 100 may hang on the 5 on 4 studs, but they need to be bored out to a larger lug nut shank size or be bored and fitted with press in "savers" that are used in Aluminum rims that have wallowed out patterns, not really the best way to go unless you are in love with the modern rice pattern that the 5 X 100 offers.

[dodger1]

Ford also used 5 on 4.5 pattern, but the catch here is (I think) Mopar wheels use the center hole to accurately position (pilot) the rim on the hub. Plus the metric warning pishta mentioned. So it isn't just the bolt pattern to watch.

[Dr. Righteous]

Well, I have a spare set of jeep wheels with a good set of tires that are just taking up space. The rubber on the Satellite is so dry rotted they won't hold air more than a few days. Gonna swap them out.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by dodger1

Ford also used 5 on 4.5 pattern, but the catch here is (I think) Mopar wheels use the center hole to accurately position (pilot) the rim on the hub. Plus the metric warning pishta mentioned. So it isn't just the bolt pattern to watch.

Can someone confirm that, that the Mopar center register is actually hub-centric? I have a pair of Centerlines Im going to redrill and need to know if the Hub is actually spot on, that way I can dimension my pattern off the hub.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by pishta

Can someone confirm that, that the Mopar center register is actually hub-centric? I have a pair of Centerlines Im going to redrill and need to know if the Hub is actually spot on, that way I can dimension my pattern off the hub.

All stock wheels register is hub centeric as you put it. There's evern spacers to match the center hub to the aftermarket aluminum wheels. The centeric supports the wheel, not the studs. I've had some stock Mopar wheels that fit so tight you had to kick the crap out of them to get them to come loose.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by dwc43

All stock wheels register is hub centeric as you put it. There's evern spacers to match the center hub to the aftermarket aluminum wheels. The centeric supports the wheel, not the studs. I've had some stock Mopar wheels that fit so tight you had to kick the crap out of them to get them to come loose.

If that is the case, that the hub supports the weight, how can they sell plastic hub rings? Seems they would surely collapse or compress under the weight of a car. Seems to be a hot topic during my research. I measured the centerline rims and their hub looks concentric with the bolt holes. Now I can use the register as a reference.

[dwc43]

Have not seen any plastic ones. I have seen some aluminum and steel ones in the past. Don't think I'd put any plastsic stuff around my wheels.

[dodger1]

I believe I've seen a reference to the hub-centric feature at Rick Ehrenberg's Mopar Action tech site, but can't remember details, only the warning!

[pishta]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Have not seen any plastic ones. I have seen some aluminum and steel ones in the past. Don't think I'd put any plastsic stuff around my wheels.

DeeDub, check this out. http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp They have plastic and aluminum for some of the same sizes. Wonder why, maybe the aluminum does support the weight, I kinda thought the aftermarket rims that had the universal 3.2 centerbore were lug-centric.

[pishta]

Well, dont throw those chevy pattern centerlines out, just redrill them! It took me forever as they were on the back burner, but I finally got them bolted up and no runout! I made a brass hubcentric ring to center the rims on the register and wallowed out my original holes to take a small Crager Mag lugnut. The holes turned out to be 5/8 drill hole to accomodate a 19/32 shank diameter lug nut, the tolerance is close enough as the hub ring get the rim centered, the lugs just keep it on the hub. The ring was not hard to make, but it has to be very close tolerance, a slip or interference fit around the register as well as the pilot hole in the rim. I got mine to slip in the pilot hole and then peened them in with a punch along the outer edge, that slightly expanded the brass ring, causing a tight fit. remember to measure with the brake drum ON as it may make the register size where the ring contacts different than the base size. I used a lathe to turn the soft brass, turned the outside, then chucked the outside and turned the inside. The holes were the hardest part. I finally used the drum as a pattern, but you have to make sure the drum is absolutely centered in the rim. An easier way to do it would be to use your new centering rings with an old hub with all the lugs removed and just use a center punch with the correct OD of the knurled stud holes to mark your 5 holes in the rim. I tried to just inscribe a 4 inch circle off the 4 3/4 pattern but it turned out to be off a few mm's (too small) then use some geometry or a compass and get 5 equidistant points on the circle to mark the bolt centers, believe me the hub or drum as a pattern is easier. I still ended up grinding out each hole to get the lugnut to screw in smoothly. It is a job, but if you got the time and the rims, itll save you a few bucks.
Added bonus, the special Chevy 2 Offset on these Centerlines is almost perfect to get some meat under the lips of the early A's fenders. No narrowing or spring relocation necessary. Too bad mine are somewhat pitted from years of use as I got a brand new set of skinnies for the front, a little mismatch

[cageman]

I dont know what you wrote, as it is impossible to read,
but I would never run those wheels, the holes are almost off the charts, eeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk!
I have a set of ralleye wheels for my neon,
they are a direct bolt on, and I also have a set of old 5 by 4 wheels on the race neon too,
and they fit nice on the studs, and hub center too.
Dont scare me one bit.
But those holes drilled next to the center scare me.

[Ray Bell]

Let's see what we've got here:

Well, dont throw those Chevy pattern centerlines out, just redrill them!

It took me forever as they were on the back burner, but I finally got them bolted up and no runout! I made a brass hubcentric ring to center the rims on the register and wallowed out my original holes to take a small Cragar Mag lugnut.

The holes turned out to be 5/8 drill hole to accomodate a 19/32 shank diameter lug nut, the tolerance is close enough as the hub ring gets the rim centered, the lugs just keep it on the hub.

The ring was not hard to make, but it has to be very close tolerance, a slip or interference fit around the register as well as the pilot hole in the rim. I got mine to slip in the pilot hole and then peened them in with a punch along the outer edge, that slightly expanded the brass ring, causing a tight fit.

Remember to measure with the brake drum ON as it may make the register size where the ring contacts different than the base size. I used a lathe to turn the soft brass, turned the outside, then chucked the outside and turned the inside.

The holes were the hardest part. I finally used the drum as a pattern, but you have to make sure the drum is absolutely centered in the rim. An easier way to do it would be to use your new centering rings with an old hub with all the lugs removed and just use a center punch with the correct OD of the knurled stud holes to mark your 5 holes in the rim.

I tried to just inscribe a 4 inch circle off the 4 3/4 pattern but it turned out to be off a few mms (too small), then use some geometry or a compass and get 5 equidistant points on the circle to mark the bolt centers. Believe, me the hub or drum as a pattern is easier.

I still ended up grinding out each hole to get the lugnut to screw in smoothly. It is a job, but if you got the time and the rims, it'll save you a few bucks.

Added bonus, the special Chevy 2 Offset on these Centerlines is almost perfect to get some meat under the lips of the early A's fenders. No narrowing or spring relocation necessary. Too bad mine are somewhat pitted from years of use as I got a brand new set of skinnies for the front, a little mismatch

Okay, now my comment on the centre hole...

This doesn't carry the weight. It locates the wheel as you bolt it on, then the friction between the wheel centre and the hub face carries the load. At least it will while the nuts are done up.

[Charrlie_S]

I don't see any problem with this. I have an old set of Crager super trick 13 in front rims, with the small bolt pattern. They had an Adapter ring in the center hole, and the lug holes are in about the same relative location to these wheels. If it was good enough for Crager to do from the factory, it should be ok to do the mod.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by Charrlie_S

I don't see any problem with this. I have an old set of Crager super trick 13 in front rims, with the small bolt pattern. They had an Adapter ring in the center hole, and the lug holes are in about the same relative location to these wheels. If it was good enough for Crager to do from the factory, it should be ok to do the mod.

I agreed enough to attempt these. I had a set of Shelby from the factory drilled to a 5 on 4 pattern and the holes actually broke through the centerbore in a few places. My Centerlines have the same large chevy centerbore but they press a ring into the center just like my brass ones. Only reason I used a ring was to get the rim centered, I dont know if the lugs or the register bear the weight, so Ill use both. And I still cant imagine cagemans 5 on 4 rallies bolt up true on a Neon. I have a breeze and those 5 on 100mm (3.937 inch) aluminum rims wont bolt up true on my 5 on 4 (101.6mm) 65 Barracuda, too much slop in the bolt holes and as soon as you get one acorn or mag lug on, it centers itself and throws all the other way off. I saw one in a magazine with Rallys but they were admitedly custom drilled.

[Ray Bell]

Trust me... it's the load holding the wheel to the hub face that does the job...

On a number of cars I've relied on the tapered wheel bolt holes to centre the wheel, there being no contact between the counterbore in the wheel and the hub's centre.

Never had any problem. The wheels never move once they're bolted in place. I recently had the 'Engineer's Handbook' quoted to me about just what side load such a face held by a 1/4" UNC bolt at 20 lbs/ft would carry. Impressive, I can tell you.