Building The Best 440???

[JOE66]

ONCE AGAIN ME AND MY QUESTIONS. DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT SECTION TO POST THIS, BUT, I'M PLANNING TO BUILD MY OWN 440. I'M BASING MY BUDGET AND MY SMALL KNOWLEDGE ON SUMMIT AND 440source.com WEB SITES... EVERYONE KNOWS SUMMIT AND THEIR PRICES/PARTS, BUT HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT 440source.com??? FOR THE THINGS THAT I ALREADY SAW IN THE WEB IT SEEMS THEY'RE OK. AND SECOND OF ALL, WHAT ARE THE BEST THINGS THAT I CANT GET TO HAVE A NORMAL/REAL HIGH HP. I'M ACTUALLY READING ABOUT HEADS, COMPRESSION RATIO, OPEN AND CLOSE CHAMBERS, BORE, STROKE, AND EVERYTHING I CAN TO LEARN EVERYTHING ABOUT MOPARS. WHAT'S YOU'RE ADVISE TO DO THIS???? WAHT SHOULD I BUY.

[dave571]

You need to answer a few questions....

Car?
rear end gear?
auto?

Show car? (are numbers matching important?)
Track car?
Cruiser with the occasiona weekend at the track?
Just a cruiser?

You've used 440 source and summit to work out a budget...what is it?

Does it include the accesories? carb? converter? exhaust/headers?



The "Best" 440 is the one that suits your needs the best. The 440 in my motor home works well, but it wouldn't be a great performer in a car.

And please don't post ina ll caps. It's considered YELLING. So please stop YELLING at us.

[JOE66]

Originally Posted by dave571

You need to answer a few questions....

Car?
rear end gear?
auto?

Show car? (are numbers matching important?)
Track car?
Cruiser with the occasiona weekend at the track?
Just a cruiser?

You've used 440 source and summit to work out a budget...what is it?

Does it include the accesories? carb? converter? exhaust/headers?



The "Best" 440 is the one that suits your needs the best. The 440 in my motor home works well, but it wouldn't be a great performer in a car.

And please don't post ina ll caps. It's considered YELLING. So please stop YELLING at us.

you are totally right.

1st. Im not concerned about numbers matching, anyway i believe the engin that has now is not even original,

2nd. You are right, im looking for something street/strip, not super high performance cause i still want to drive it on the weekends, some 600hps or around, thats why im putting my eyes on some stroker kits,

3rd. In guessing the best trans to fit these needs would be a 727 with a nice stall torque converter, is there a better option?

4th. Im trying to get the block somewhere like a swap meet or even a yard, have it inspected and checked for craks, and maybe a .040 over,
and yes i know summit and 440 are not the best to go on a budget, but considering all the job that has to be done on lets say a couple of stock iron heads, meaning, porting, valve job, valve seat job, etc, i can come close to some nice aluminum heads that do the job and do it right..
For the 440 source im looking only at the rotating assembly cuase i wanna stroke it so im not sure if this is the best way to go..

5th. Yes I need advise on the whole package, intake manifold, cfms on tha carb, headers sizes and collectors, etc etc,
so i guess im asking pretty much how to build an engine, but im doing a lot of research and any advice or experience would be tons of help....

and last but not least, sorry about the caps, im in my office and filling out car insurance forms and thats the way to fill them!!!
so im switching on and off the msn,
Im not yelling at anyone IM I ?????? hahahahahhahahahah
thanks for your comments man!!!

[furz4444]

Dave is right, you need to build your engine to meet your performance goals for your car. What kind of car are you putting this into? A 600 HP stroker is going to make regular street tires pretty useless and is going to reqire some suspension mods to make use of the power, if your car does not have a big block now you may need to go to a larger rearend to handle the power. Also if you run at a track with that amout of power you are going to be required to install a roll cage if the car runs a low enough ET. If your not going to use it mostly as a race car I would look to build a good street engine with around 10 to 1 comp so you can run on regular premium gas. Cam choice and header size and intake should be matched to the RPM potential of the engine as well as intended usage. Edlebrock haeds are a nice upgrade over stockers and won't cost much more then having your existing heads fitted with larger valves and ported. If it was my car and I had a good 440 core with steel crank I probably would use what I had and not stroke it. You should be able to make close to 500 HP with a standard 440 and still be somewhat streetable. It realy depends on what you are planning to use the car for. I had a 70 roadrunner with a stock 383 and automatic with 3.23 gears, it ran 14.0 at 100 mph, 0 to 135 mph in a little ove a mile and could get 16 mpg crusing at 55. I also had a 68 roadrunner, built 440 4 speed car Dana 60 with 5.38 gears that could run high 11's but the 70 with the 383 was alot more fun to drive on the street.

[JOE66]

Originally Posted by furz4444

Dave is right, you need to build your engine to meet your performance goals for your car. What kind of car are you putting this into? A 600 HP stroker is going to make regular street tires pretty useless and is going to reqire some suspension mods to make use of the power, if your car does not have a big block now you may need to go to a larger rearend to handle the power. Also if you run at a track with that amout of power you are going to be required to install a roll cage if the car runs a low enough ET. If your not going to use it mostly as a race car I would look to build a good street engine with around 10 to 1 comp so you can run on regular premium gas. Cam choice and header size and intake should be matched to the RPM potential of the engine as well as intended usage. Edlebrock haeds are a nice upgrade over stockers and won't cost much more then having your existing heads fitted with larger valves and ported. If it was my car and I had a good 440 core with steel crank I probably would use what I had and not stroke it. You should be able to make close to 500 HP with a standard 440 and still be somewhat streetable. It realy depends on what you are planning to use the car for. I had a 70 roadrunner with a stock 383 and automatic with 3.23 gears, it ran 14.0 at 100 mph, 0 to 135 mph in a little ove a mile and could get 16 mpg crusing at 55. I also had a 68 roadrunner, built 440 4 speed car Dana 60 with 5.38 gears that could run high 11's but the 70 with the 383 was alot more fun to drive on the street.

what I actually have is a 1970 Coronet, the one that looks like a Super Bee. Now, i'm not planning to have this car for professional racing. I do like professional racing, but that doesen't mean that i whant to become one hehe. I want this car to have nice hp without putting a rolle-cage or something like that. I do like the idea of using regular gas too hahaha. Most of it, what I want to know is, whith a couple of heads, a nice rotary assembly sistem, intake manifold, headers, carburator, 727 trans., maybe a .030 block, and a couple of more things im i gonna be able to have a little bit more tha 500 hp in a 440???? what's you're advice to me guys??? by the way, i already have a video of the car it sounds very good.

[JOE66]

here's a short video of my car. hope you all like it.
http://video.google.es/videoplay?doc...37110136&hl=es
if you're not able to see it, let me know.

[dave571]

Well I'll start by saying an honest 600 hp is a fair bit for a street/strip car. BUT from what you are describing.....

Solid street strip car with lots of power on demand.

A stroker motor does make the most sense for this application.

-If you havent got a block yet, start with a 400. They are stonger than rb blocks. and cheaper.

-go with a 440 source kit. There are lots of guys running them in fast cars. On a street car you won't need a build that rev's. More expensive parts will only be more expensive. just make sure the guy putting it together knows what he is doing.

-Heads- I'm not an eddy guy, but on a street strip stroker, it would seem to be the logical choice. Iron heads will choke a motor 500 inches or bigger. Un less you are building a tow motor.

-cam- the big motor will be forgiving. I would still try to keep it under 240 duration at 50. Lot's of choices for you to research. Cam's have been a big debate on this board.
I like custom cams. Talk to a cam grinder or 3 and see what they recommend. Not a counter guy at summit or your local speed shop.

-converter- buy a good one. The big motor will put a big load on it. need a good 9.5" or bigger, and a trans cooler. Don't use an out of the box 200 dollar piece. It will not live.

intake- eddy rpm

compression 9:1. A full point of compression is only worth 4% in a given combo, but will make fuels need easier.

carb-850 demon. Speed or mighty depending on your final cam pick. That would be my off the shelf choice Lots of choices/options/opinions here also.

So now is where the dilemas start to come up. A torkey stroker will like to break parts. Need a good 8 3/4 (489, 742) at the very least. chances of a failure in a heavy car with a hi torque motor are high. Dana would be a better choice but more money. Possible future upgrade.

Fuel system will need to be upgraded. Bigger pick up. A good electric pump, bigger lines..

Good parts in the 727. Billet drum etc.

Even if you decide to go with a less agressive build to keep the tires on the grouind, I'm going to say stick with a stroker motor as a recomendation. Some say "Build the biggest shortblock you can afford" I think that is good advice as you can always change the accesories later. my .02

[a440plus6®]

Your gonna have to change the rear end too. 8 3/4 or Dana.

[451Mopar]

What stroker kit you going to use the 4.15" or 4.25" stroke?

I have been thinking of building a 440 with the 4.25" stroker kit and the longer 7" rods for my coronet.

I haven't seen any prices or too much info on the new Edelbrock Victor heads, but they sound like they flow really well which would be good when you have 500+ cid.

Since the heads usually flow at higher valve lifts (like 0.600"+, you will probbably want a roller cam. you may even be able to use a hydraulic roller if the RPM levels are not too high.

[superbee1970440]

Originally Posted by a440plus6®

Your gonna have to change the rear end too. 8 3/4 or Dana.

From the video, it looks like a dana to me

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by 451Mopar

I have been thinking of building a 440 with the 4.25" stroker kit and the longer 7" rods for my coronet.

I have one going together.Using 7.000 Oliver rods and custom Diamond pistons.Use the 7.100 rods from a number of different sources and you can probably get shelf pistons.I had a dome put on mine because of the altitude here.

[a440plus6®]

Originally Posted by superbee1970440

From the video, it looks like a dana to me.

OOOPS, my bad...you are correct....case of CRS here LOL

[wildfish72]

dude build a simple 440 or do like i did and find a cherry 68 to 71 440 and go from their , 509 purple cam .m1 intake ,950dp and a stage one port on the heads. this is in a 72 cuda , ran a low 12 with a 3,000 stall and a 8 1/4 3.71 rearend , and no i dont need to change the rearend , now wen i go nos just to see if the motor will hold then ill change the rearend to a 9 inch

[JOE66]

i've been looking a lot on this 440 SOURCE web site. I'm planning to build this engine from their parts. Maybe a pair of Indy heads, Chevy rod pistons, 4.250 Crankshaft, flat pistons, the block is gonna be a 0.030 over bore, and a couple of more things, just to build a normal big engine. A friend was telling me that just by putting the 4.250 Crank, and the over bore in 0.030 i have a 505 engine. I know it's not just putting this things and thats it, but, i guess it doesen't requiere a lot of work building a decent engine throwing a little bit more than 650 hp's????

[daredevil]

whats wrong with a dana 60 or even an 8.75 I launch my swinger at 2600 footbrakin with 32 x10.5 slicks and nothing breaks in my 489 case.Joe as far as your 440 I believe a 4.150 crank is as big as you can go before you have to go with external oiling.add a thousand to the build. A 4.15 crank will work with flattops and 6.76 rods for 500 cubes with minor clearancing. Make sure you have a good working combo before you start spending your hard earned dollars.

[wildfish72]

9 inch is a much better rearend , more selection for the gears i wants , and if im ganna notch and build a bullet rearend , its not ganna be a 8.75 rearend, and a dana 60 is way out of anybody price range wen they can build a 9 inch for much cheaper

[dave571]

There's a guy on moparts (DoctorDiff) who builds dana's for a pretty good price

For that matter, truck dana's are practically free, and can have ends put car tubes put on them for not a lot either.

IF you build a dana and a 9" the same(sfi axles, sure grip, gear set, brgs etc), there won't be much difference in price.

Of course the 9" does have the removable carrier advantage.

Here's a thread where they are discussing truck dana conversion
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...ue#Post3097590

[wildfish72]

well ive got a guy thats ganna build me a 9inch for $1,100 all i have to do is come up with a housing and a thrd member , ive seen his rearend in action, good for about 850hp to the ground , i trust he will give me the best deal ,and also it will be even cheaper to run disk brake in the rear , 8.8 mustang disc brake will bolt right up , i was ganna go with a dana60 but for $2,000 and up was alittle more then i wanted to spend

[darktone]

Originally Posted by wildfish72

well ive got a guy thats ganna build me a 9inch for $1,100 all i have to do is come up with a housing and a thrd member , ive seen his rearend in action, good for about 850hp to the ground , i trust he will give me the best deal ,and also it will be even cheaper to run disk brake in the rear , 8.8 mustang disc brake will bolt right up , i was ganna go with a dana60 but for $2,000 and up was alittle more then i wanted to spend

An $1,100 9" hooking up with 850 wheel horsepower will be like a grenade. Are we talking real horsepower or chevy guy horsepower .

[wildfish72]

the rearend will be good for 850hp, i wont be anywere close to that , his e body dynos at 890hp to the ground with the bottle, and well over 900tq, and it will be the same rearend setup

[darktone]

Originally Posted by wildfish72

the rearend will be good for 850hp, i wont be anywere close to that , his e body dynos at 890hp to the ground with the bottle, and well over 900tq, and it will be the same rearend setup

then it aint no $1,100 unit.

[daredevil]

after talking with engine builders I would shy away from 7.100 rods because piston will dwell at top a lot longer leading to detonation issues with pump gas on the street Ok for a race motor but nasty on the street.

[will'srunner]

I was in the same position you are in now i have a 69 Roadrunner a wife and 2 little ones, meaning building a car on a budget. and spending my money wisely.
I asked lots of questions witch led me to find a book available from e-bay called "Old Reliable" written by a guy up here in canada called Don Dulmage.
now I know what your thinking this is a plug for the book well it is kind of, I wanted a basic 440 that could get my Road Runner into the 11's and in Don's book his philosophy is you don't need the mega alloy stuff just the right parts working together.

http://stores.ebay.ca/Don-Dulmage-Enterprises
http://seniordragster.bravehost.com/index.html

Now if you asked 100 people on this list for there 440 combo you will get 100 different versions of the same motor and thats OK thats what makes this fun.
My combo is a 1973 440 out of a motor-home that Don built up for me with the parts he uses in the book it will put out around 580 hp and get my car into the 11's and my cash outlay for the motor is around 3 thousand CDN.
I am not saying I am right but get lots of information and don't be swayed by all the glossy mags pushing big buck parts!
keep your head screwed on and take your time.
Good Luck

[wildfish72]

Originally Posted by darktone

then it aint no $1,100 unit.

check it out for $1,100 he will build my 9inch so that means i already have the housings and then he charges me $1,100 to do the rest , now if i want disk brake ill have to buy them for extra, and also this a mini spool setup with strange axles and other stuff that looses me , and arnt you the one asking people if your car will run a 13 , sounds like your just looking to pick a fight

[wildfish72]

Originally Posted by JOE66

i've been looking a lot on this 440 SOURCE web site. I'm planning to build this engine from their parts. Maybe a pair of Indy heads, Chevy rod pistons, 4.250 Crankshaft, flat pistons, the block is gonna be a 0.030 over bore, and a couple of more things, just to build a normal big engine. A friend was telling me that just by putting the 4.250 Crank, and the over bore in 0.030 i have a 505 engine. I know it's not just putting this things and thats it, but, i guess it doesen't requiere a lot of work building a decent engine throwing a little bit more than 650 hp's????

hey man sorry for gitting off topic, sounds like your ganna build a really hot motor, 440source has some killer deals on their stroker kits , ive herd their kits really hold up to a beating, goo luck on the monster build up on

[djswwg]

I built a 440 block with a 4.375" crank, 6.800" rods and Ross pistons. No clearancing issues or trouble using a Mopar hi-volume oil pump. Don't know if you could do the same as easily with a 400 block or not, (clearance at bottom of cylinders) but you would need shorter rods for sure. my .02....................djs

[darktone]

sorry for being off topic also- just around too many chevy guy's.

[JOE66]

THANKS GUYS FOR THE INFO. I'm gonna read a little bit more and then post more questions for you. thank you.

[JOE66]

Originally Posted by will'srunner

I was in the same position you are in now i have a 69 Roadrunner a wife and 2 little ones, meaning building a car on a budget. and spending my money wisely.
I asked lots of questions witch led me to find a book available from e-bay called "Old Reliable" written by a guy up here in canada called Don Dulmage.
now I know what your thinking this is a plug for the book well it is kind of, I wanted a basic 440 that could get my Road Runner into the 11's and in Don's book his philosophy is you don't need the mega alloy stuff just the right parts working together.

http://stores.ebay.ca/Don-Dulmage-Enterprises
http://seniordragster.bravehost.com/index.html

Now if you asked 100 people on this list for there 440 combo you will get 100 different versions of the same motor and thats OK thats what makes this fun.
My combo is a 1973 440 out of a motor-home that Don built up for me with the parts he uses in the book it will put out around 580 hp and get my car into the 11's and my cash outlay for the motor is around 3 thousand CDN.
I am not saying I am right but get lots of information and don't be swayed by all the glossy mags pushing big buck parts!
keep your head screwed on and take your time.
Good Luck

Do you have an extra engine like the one tou're describing????

[JOE66]

Originally Posted by djswwg

I built a 440 block with a 4.375" crank, 6.800" rods and Ross pistons. No clearancing issues or trouble using a Mopar hi-volume oil pump. Don't know if you could do the same as easily with a 400 block or not, (clearance at bottom of cylinders) but you would need shorter rods for sure. my .02....................djs

how many hp's this engine has??? and no clearence problems with the 4.375" crank???????????? i'm planning this 440 engine too, but only with 4.250"... as for the 6.800" rods is like the 10th time i've herad about this. So tell me, please, with this short combo of crank, rod's, pistons would i be hitting easely the 550 hp's?????