Dual Quad 440 ...

[DataMax]

I am in the market for a good streetable intake system for a 440. I have been thinking Holley Street Dominator with a 770 Street Aveneger. Then I am on JEGS website the other day and I notice that they list a complete ready to go Edelbrock Dual Quad system that consists of two 600cfm eddy's over a dual plane dual quad manifold.

As I do not race the need here is about street ability and coolness. On cruise night popping the hood over a dual 4 system would definately have the coolness factor covered ... but ... how streetable is it?

Has anyone here had any experience running eddy's dual plane dual quad system on a street car? And if so how did it work for you?

Thank you much,
Mark

[John Kunkel]

I have a pair of 600 cfm AFB's on the 392 in my '57 Chrysler and they're very streetable.

I won't debate the efficiency over a single four but the "wow factor" is definitely there.

[JLM440]

I ran a weiand T/R with 2 600 holleys on my 451, it was very streetable & idled & started better then my 750, it even did better on gas believe it or not don't know if your looking to get a low ram or T/R, but the T/Rs are way cool..

[DartGT66]

The edelbrock dual quad should be a pretty good intake, about the level of an RPM intake. I would use a progressive linkage with it, opening four throttles instead of two will give you twice the amount of air at any given throttle angle, so a progressive linkage would make it feel a little "softer" in regular traffic.

[Madman Stephan]

I have a Offenhauser tunnel ram with 2 AFB carbs. It was already on the car when I bought it. It requires a little bit more tuning than a simple 4 barrel of course.

[sundrop_440]

I have a 68 charger 440, automatic I have the edelbrock performer RPM dual quad setup, I love it, everything about it, I had a Edelbrock 750,1407 I believe and it was ok, I have a somewhat mild setup, or I did when I installed the dual quad, I bought each piece seperate,the kit would have been nice,I had roughly 8;1 compression,1 3/4" headers, 2 1/2'' exhaust, 3;55 gears, posi,stock converter, the cam was 268 degree, 110 separation,.454 lift. alot of low torque, anyway I was surprised by how much it woke up with the change, I thought I might have a bog on the low end and that it would come alive mid to upper RPM,not so. Right out of the hole,it was there,right now. I have two 1405 edelbrock 600's and I took the choke plates out,I drive it only in the summer and it isn't really needed, I just feather it a little til it's warm.The manifold comes with the right jets for the 600's and I used the progressive linkage,but I tied the two together,the throttle is a little sensitive but I don't think it's too bad,I also installed a 1/2" phenolic spacer to help the percolating problem on hot days,I did all this for the same reason you might.

[sundrop_440]

Oh, I forgot one of the best things about this setup, after I set it up which didn't take that long I haven't had to adjust it at all for two years.I did install a new kickdown cable in place of the stock one, and I fabbed up a little bracket to hold both the throttle cable and kickdown cable, it's simple and easy to make, looks nice and cheap, I can send you a photo or even make you one.

[charger_dan]

Originally Posted by sundrop_440

I can send you a photo or even make you one.

Sundrop --
I'd like to see photos, especially how your linkage and fuel lines are routed.
I'm thinking of going to this manifold too.
Thanks

[JLM440]

Originally Posted by sundrop_440

Oh, I forgot one of the best things about this setup, after I set it up which didn't take that long I haven't had to adjust it at all for two years.I did install a new kickdown cable in place of the stock one, and I fabbed up a little bracket to hold both the throttle cable and kickdown cable, it's simple and easy to make, looks nice and cheap, I can send you a photo or even make you one.

Sundrop, i would like to see some pics too, if this set-up works good on your 8.1 comp. 440, it might just work on my 7.9 440, also, how do you like that cam? what springs are you using with it...
heres my e-mail if you want to send some pics.

joedust451@peoplepc.com

[sundrop_440]

The cam I had was a comp cam, it was a high torque cam, I'll have to see if the numbers are on the cam or I'll have to look it up.It was great for the street and turning tires at the lights, but I wanted more overall power. I since have installed a hughes cam and 915 heads that I ported myself and .020 head gasket, 2600 stall converter,1 7/8'" hooker ceramic headers. Next I'm going to throw in a set of 3;91 gears. I'll go take some pictures and I have a friend that will have to help me post them I haven't done this before,I'll be happy to help if I can for your setup. It might take me awhile to get back to this post from time to time but I'll keep checking it for any questions

[pishta]

Im on the fence about going to to a dual quad setup on my 451. It does look cool, and I hear the intakes have a broader RPM range. My friends dad has a warm 440-8 in a 63 B and he consistantly beats his friends somewhat stock426 Hemi, no tuning, no big stall convertor, just power from 1200 to 6500.

[sundrop_440]

Yeah, I would suggest staying with a dual plane, tunnel rams are a whole different beast and aren't as friendly on the street,Edelbrock really did their homework on this setup in my opinion, the only frustration I have is with hood clearance,chargers are limited in space and without cutting the hood it is tight and you have to measure and search for parts and combinations to fit (air cleaners, intake,carbs, gaskets, spacers, etc.)It took me awhile to get air filters, gaskets/spacers that would fit.

[DataMax]

Thanks Guys!

Sundrop, you have me convinced ... this is the way I will go ... I will start with assembled kit from JEGS ... that will take most of the guess work out it. My motor has 10.5:1 pistons and my cam is an MP 280/.474 ... so it is a little different than yours but it has to work better than what I have now.

I would love to see pics of your custom linkage/kick down bracket.

mvancamp@cox.net

[beepbeepsrule]

Can't wait to help you tune it up!

[John Kunkel]

Here's a couple of pics of the progressivfe linkage and fuel lines on my '57, the early throttle rod pushes the carb open instead of pulling like the later cable throttle setups but the overall idea is the same:

[charger_dan]

John,
Wow. Nice, clean work. Compared to Edelbrock's linkage kit, this is a more elegant solution.

On the progressive linkage -- how is it set up? At what points do all those throttle shafts open?

thanks

[John Kunkel]

You can pretty much tell by the distance between the collar at the front of the connector rod and the slide how much the rear (secondary) carb will open before engaging the front (primary) carb. The closer to the throttle shaft the front slide is the more the rear carb can open before engaging the front but closer locations increase the force needed to open the front.

Mine has enough primary carb travel to cover normal driving without kicking the secondary carb.

[mhenesian]

If you have two spare AFB/AVS carbs, the CH-28 is a great street manifold. Picture attached.

Currently on my 4-spd car. Uses two Carter 750 cfm AVS carbs that have been re-drilled for the narrow bolt spacing of the old Carter AFB's. Basically stock jets and step-up rods. The idle feed restrictions were opened up to 0.038" from the stock 0.035". Chokes are wired open. One Carter race electric fuel pump back at the fuel tank. No mechanical pump. I'm currently running the Mopar 509 cam (292 deg/250 deg at 0.050, 0.509" lift).

The low compression 440 pulls hard from 2400 ~ 6200 rpm with this cam and manifold. I had to fab my own progressive dual quad linkage from junkyard parts, following the 426 Hemi linkage pictures in the 1969 shop manual. However, you can get "generic" linkage kits from Mr. Gasket. The Edelbrock kit only works on later model Edelbrock AFB/AVS cars. If I had to buy new carbs, I would go with two Edelbrock 650 cfm AVS's. On the street I tighten both air valve doors on the 750 AVS's to 2 1/2 turns from the point when the doors first close. At the track I'll loosen them to 2 or less turns. A little "bog" helps keep the tires from breaking loose. Ignition timing is 18 deg initial, 36 deg total at 3500 rpm (heavy set of MSD springs, large diameter advance "stop" bushing).

When I get a chance I'll upload a picture of the linkage, I've posted it before -

Mark H. (Happy Holidays and Good Racing !)

[charger_dan]

anybody know if the factory street hemi air cleaner assembly will fit this combo?

[mhenesian]

Here's the picture of my "junkyard" linkage. It's adjusted so that both carbs reach full throttle at the same time - but in a progressive way. The primary carb is the rear one. This is a pain since one can't easily adjust the idle mixture screws without first removing the front carb, which is the secondary one. The screws are set at 3 1/2 turns out on the rear (primary) carb and 3 turns on the front (secondary) carb.

The opening sequence is as follows: 1.) primary thottles on rear carb, 2.) primary thottles on front carb, 3.) secondary on rear, 4.) secondary on front. The primary thottles on the front carb open a few degrees ahead of the opening point of the secondaries on the rear carb. Similarly, the secondaries on the rear are a few degrees ahead of the secondaries on the front.

There's a major rush of power when the front (secondary) carb is cracked open, probably because the motor is so choked for air by the small opening of the rear (primary) carb required for cruising along at 60 mph or so. Less of a rush when the secondary throttles are opened on either carb.

To Charger Dan's question. I wish I had a factory Street Hemi air cleaner to test. From the factory shop manual you can see that the factory setup also used closely spaced carbs - like the Edelbrock manifold. So I would bet that the Hemi air cleaner would work with the CH-28 on a 440 - but probably require some modifications, since the original AFB's used the smaller air cleaner opening diameter (something like 4 3/4" vs. 5 1/8" ?).

Mark H.

[Madman Stephan]

Mhenesian: Is that just a coupling on your fuel line between 1st carb and 2nd carb inlets?

[mhenesian]

Hi Madman, Sorry I couldn't get back to you right away ! The "red" fuel line coupling between the 1st and 2nd carbs is from Summit Racing (P/N 230188, $41.95). It's a copy of Edelbrock's P/N 8088 ($53.88). Both are kind of pricey, but very nice ! I couldn't run rubber fuel line because I race the car and the tech inspectors don't want to see more than 12" total of rubber fuel line anywhere, even at the tank. If it looks nice at the carbs, they won't get snoopy and look under the car.

John Kunkel has a real nice setup ! Also, I wish I knew how he was embedding his pics right in his post (without going thru the "attachment" deal),

Mark H.

[charger_dan]

i'm digging those dual AVS carbs.
are they 750s?
did your jet/rod calibrations have to change much from stock?

[rumblefish360]

The idle feed restrictions were opened up to 0.038" from the stock 0.035".

Could you point that out in a picture to me?

[Tarrbabe]

Street Hemi set-up. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all knew they worked great on the street. Just remember both carbs have idle circuits and because of that, extended idle time will be harder on plugs.

I love it.


Just thinking out louf.

[sundrop_440]

Like I said earlier I have two eddy-600's and I joined them together, and after I adjusted the idle I haven't had to re-adjust for a couple of years and I can idle as long as my engine temp stays moderate, that's a whole different issue I have battled with my 68charger for years and most of that is due to engine compartment design, but I can still idle for a good 45min. anyway,and no plug fouling, I believe that is a jetting issue if your cam is mild to moderate. I too can't seem to get my pictures attached to my threads, I sure wish I could figure it out, I'm still trying. sundrop

[68RoadRunner440]

for posting pics in the body of the message in opposition to the attachments:

go to tinypic.com or imageshack.us and upload the desired image from your pc.
copy the last option of the Imageshack: "Direct link to image", or the last option of the Tinypic: "URL Link: for email and instant messenger".
go to "Post Reply" and click the "Insert Image" icon and paste the link of the pic in the opened window. its done.

hope this helps and sorry for the bad English...


i'm also thinking in the Edelbrock dual quad combo for my 440 powered '68 RR...

[rumblefish360]

Sheeeeeeeeetz, das english looky better dan minez.

[72Challenger]

LOL, Rob you are too funny! RustCollector from Norway is another MC member who's English is better than a lot of Americans. Sad when you think about it, really.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by 72Challenger

LOL, Rob you are too funny! RustCollector from Norway is another MC member who's English is better than a lot of Americans. Sad when you think about it, really.

Hey Chally, my 2 yrs of high school spanish is better than half the Mexicans I work with, that is really sad..