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  #1  
Old 01-03-2007, 09:33 PM
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Ray Bell Ray Bell is offline
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Default A833 capabilities.

I've been asked this and would appreciate some assistance in answering:

Quote:
I really need to know what the power/torque capabilities of the A833s are.

I have over 450 hp 400 ft lbs out of a 340 already, which is more than
a 426 hemi was doing in the 1960s. Once I have the drive train bullet
proof I want to increase the engine power to over 600 hp.

I should be able to achieve this with with a stroker kit and maybe
better heads.

Clearly this is way past what an A833 had to handle in the 1960s

I have spent thousands on the clutch gearbox and rear axle already so
I want to make sure that the gearbox etc that I use can take the
loads.
We're talking about 23-spline boxes here. What can I tell the guy?
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:30 PM
Shaun Shaun is offline
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Well Ray,Ronnie Sox(Mr. Four Speed) hammered the 833 and he was running pretty fast(10 seconds in 65 A/FX and down to 7's 1995).
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2007, 01:03 AM
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Thanks, Shaun... but was it an 18-spline or 23-spline box?

Will try phoning you again soon.
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2007, 01:13 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
Thanks, Shaun... but was it an 18-spline or 23-spline box?

Will try phoning you again soon.

Dug this up and it confirmed my hunch that the one I had in my first '65 was hemi like internally!

"Chrysler engineers decided that Hemis required a beefier input shaft so the standard 23-spline shaft was replaced with a beefier 18-spline unit and a larger input bearing was used to accept the additional torque. Later Chrysler decided that the high performance 440s needed this beefiness as well. It is one of a few aspects that set the "Hemi" four speeds apart from the standard 4.35" A-833s as being extra beefy. As far as strength is concerned, outside of the input shaft, the input bearing, the retainer and some special gear sets, there were no additional measures added to A-833s for Hemis. In the Sixties the only other difference between a Hemi A-833 and a Slant Six A-833 were the gear ratios used. The Slant Six 4-speed is just as beefy as the Street "Max Wedge" V-8 units."

although generally a higher count spline indicates a larger surface area and better strength, the 18 spline was a very course deep spline and it was truly stronger and the addition of the larger bearing carrier up front made a Hemi box a hemi. Add the ball and trunion rear section and youll get a 3rd bearing, making it the strongest "stock" A833. Course you could go all out and get the beefed up internals from someone, making it 600 HP worthy, although the 440's were putting out 490 Ft/lbs stock and the torque is going to kill the trans, not the HP.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:38 AM
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Actually there is a difference of some significance in the cutting of the gears... 18-spline vs 23-spline.

The guy now tells me he competes in 'Targa' rallies and that they're hard on boxes. Wonder how that compares with drag racing every weekend?
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:23 AM
go-fish go-fish is offline
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If he is doing rallies he should'nt be dipping into first that much, so wouldn't some of the initial grunt of torque that kills manuals be taken away in most of his shifts? Just a thought. He could get a bell housing that accepts a stronger tranny, but thats more $. Also what did the trans am cars use, they were small blocks? They had to be under the same kind of stressfull conditions that this guy is going to be racing under.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2007, 04:27 AM
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Surely they had to use the A833...

Again, possibly the 18-spline, but I don't know.
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:29 AM
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hello, for what it's worth, I have a 23 spline 3.09 833 in my 340 duster. it has been in there since 1979, raced all time. it has been slick shifted, use synthetic gear oil. this car dead hooks and has ran 11.40's @3400 #weight.
there is 2400 + runs on it. in those passes's have replaced input and cluster gear twice, 2nd gear once, and just last year replaced 1 st gear. the trans is very tough, will take a lot of use. I found,use synthetic gear oil in it, it helps.
I have ran mobil 1, conoco synthetic, both are excellent oils. just food for thought. by the way, never have twisted or broke input shafts. the teeth on input and cluster is what failed.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:19 AM
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Thanks, that's great...

What horsepower were you putting through it, and in which gear were you each time the primary drive (input/layshaft) stripped?

And do you have the busted input and layshaft lying around?
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:06 PM
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hello, one time was on the launch, other time was on 1-2 shift. clutch style and pressure is critical for long life in this trans. I saved one input, use it for alignment of disc.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:31 PM
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so what clutch and pressure plate do you use on it? B&B or diaphram?? And since you are from Yakima, does John Zaretzke still race the circle track there, if you ever go there?
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2007, 04:03 PM
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hello, it's a mcleod B&B/long pressure plate, set at lower static pressure with 300 series disc. clutch pressure and disc will determine trans realibility also.
another item is shifting. if you granny shift, you can break any drive train.
full throttle power shifting is a lot easier on parts, just requires fast foot and hand motion and guts.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2007, 07:14 PM
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For what it's worth. 40 years of Mopar dragracing with every form of A833 23/18 spline, big block, small block, 300 hp to 700hp. Normally aspirated, nitrous, blown. If you break one...let me know. The ones that break are clutch related and poor maintenance. The toughest stick trans out of the box that there is. I have never had a failure that was not "my" fault. Nothing like an old school four speed with a Vertigate, firewall reinforcement, slick shifted, and correct clutch departure.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perfmachst View Post
hello, it's a mcleod B&B/long pressure plate, set at lower static pressure with 300 series disc. clutch pressure and disc will determine trans realibility also.
another item is shifting. if you granny shift, you can break any drive train.
full throttle power shifting is a lot easier on parts, just requires fast foot and hand motion and guts.

NICE!!!

Would that set up make a good street combo?
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2007, 02:45 AM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
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Exclamation The 833 is no different than other trans..........

except that it is stronger. Yes you can break it but as you increase the tourqe output, you need to increase the trans and rear ability. The 833 was almost bullit proof on the Hemi and will do the same for you. NEVER think that any trans is forever. But the 833 has been louted as the best ever built. Will a stock 833 hold up behind a blown hemi? NO! Not for long. Build it as strong as you can in the beginning and it should make you proud.
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