rb in an a body

[stroker mike]

I had considered building a stroker for my dart. after doing some math, it occured to me that I know where to get a 1977 440 with a 727 for 190 bucks. It has been sitting outside since last summer. Ran fine, was pulled from a totalled imperial. now, it has rust obviously, but I believe nothing a good machinist could not clean up, and I think that maybe with a bore and flux, 9:1 rebuild, mild cam and dual plain intake, I could have the same power and torque as the 408 with a less radical and less expensive build. And have perfect street manners, too. Mr. Norm did it, why not? TTI's cost about the same, motor swap mounts cost the same, and the rest of the neccesary upgrades would have to be done either way. I saw a comp cams 470 lift magnum cam I can get for 100, good cam for a driven 440; and with heavier springs in the front and some fat torsion bars, it should weigh about the same as a gts 383, right? So it'll handle about the same, 440 parts are cheap and common out here, at tleast when compared to a stroker LA motor, so what do you all think? will a 727 fit where the 904 currently sits? might have to change the crossmember, I don't know... But for the money, and for a street driven cruiser/boulevard bomber it seems like a better deal, so why hasn't everybody done an RB conversion in their a body? there has to be a trade off, so any coucil would be appreciated very much! Thanks

[jelsr]

Not a big deal, I've done several and the factory did them from '67 thru '71 I believe. Air cleaner space is limited, spark plugs are a pain, etc., but they will boogie. If you do not have one already an 8-3/4 rear would be good. Lots of low stress bang for the buck.

[ehostler]

The major problem is the size of the engine bay. Things get real tight, with a 440 in an A body bay.

[DartGT66]

With the right headers, it's not that bad. If you are looking for moderate performance, you might consider the Schumacher headers. They are easier to live with than TTI's. http://www.engine-swaps.com
I have been building US cars since a teenager, and after some C-bodies we built a '65 valiant with a 383. After a couple of other A-bodies, I quit the hobby for a while, but when I wanted more performance, I bought a '73 valiant 4 D sedan with a /6. At the time I had a Toyota with a 1600 cc engine, and I figured that a car weighing a ton and 1.6 litres is just no match for a car weighing 1.5 tons and 6 litres. So, I built a 372 small block, pretty low buck and mild. The first time out, it run 14.57/ 98 mph, with 2.73 gears and no sure grip and on 175/14 tires. During the next couple of years the car evolved, and the small block was already pretty hot, the car run it's best of 13.26/ 107 mph, still with those small tires and now 3.23 gear ratio. However, I still wanted a little more, and went with a mechanical cam etc. Got fed up sith that pretty soon, and instead decided to go big block and make the car more docile. I think it was a wise decision. The 440 was a 8.6:1 CR rebuilt with a MP 280/.474 cam, M1 single plane, TTI (at the time CPPA) headers and 2.5" duals. The car acted like an unmodified car adn was a joy to drive in traffic. And the performance, it run 12.94/109 mph with the same drivetrain as with the "hot" small block (high swirl heads, MP 292/.509 cam etc) and got better mileage. I have never looked back, and that car is propably the most fun vehicle I will ever own. Here is a couple of videos to motivate you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=328VIZY7VVQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ezoeJWo23E
These are 15 years after the car first got its big block, it's still naturally aspirated, pump gas and still with 3.23 gears, but a little quicker than the first version.

[stroker mike]

Hey, that valiant is awesome! definitely an inspiration! Now, I called a few shops locally who do really good work to get a figure on a rebuild for the 440, and mopar engines west, and victory machine both said 3500 to 5000. Ouch. But I am gonna have the block cleaned mag'd and bored, a deck or line bore if I need to, and then I plan to do the rest myself. I can build a 440, I think, I will take my time and measure and weigh everything! I will find a good deal on pistons, intake, cam and heads online, I am sure I can do this for alot less than 5000! after everything is said and done, I hope to be driving it after 3000. body and paint later. Is this realistic? I am gonna jump in, so I gotta look before I leap!! Thanks!

[dkn1997]

Originally Posted by stroker mike

so why hasn't everybody done an RB conversion in their a body? there has to be a trade off, so any coucil would be appreciated very much! Thanks

The tradeoff is the weight too, very heavy and power steering is tight. why not disassemble it, trade the 440 block straight up for a 400 block? use the 440 crank, get the same cubes, stronger, and put some aluminum heads on it. the heads, along with the slightly reduced block weight will make it handle better, would have better clearance in the engine bay too.

[DartGT66]

Battery in to trunk, aluminum intake and water pump, manual steering instead of power steering, aluminum radiator and the weight distribution is way better than in a factory 318 A-body. In the four door in those videos, the weight distribution was 50%/50%, bu it had slightly more in it than just the things mentioned above. Typically ours have been between 50 and 54% front weights.

[DartGT66]

Depnds of what your plans are. But I believe, you can do it for way less than 3500. A short block rebuild kit at Summit with forged six pack pistons is about 700$, add a cam, rod bolts, windage tray and roller timing set, and you are at about 1000$. Quality machine work + balancing should be way under 1000$, and buying brand new edelbrock heads + head bolts will still keep you below 3500$.

[stroker mike]

You hit the nail on the head, DartGT66, that is right where my thinking is, too. Aero heads has rpm heads in the 1300 dollar/ pair range, or mancini has aluminum mopar for 7+ hundred each complete. Here's the question of the hour...Will a 727 fit where a 904 used to live?? The guy selling me the 440 and 727 says the 727 is the same length. My dart has a 8 3/4 peg leg with some highways, which will get the big r&p once we have the beast tucked in her new home, and thanks for the tip on engineswaps.com Those headers are gonna be a primary expenditure, along with the motor mounts and tranny mount. Torsion bars and springs are really not so pricey, and then I will save for cal-tracs! That Valiant clip gets played twice a day here just so I can hear the snarl..!!!

[DartGT66]

the 727 is longer, unless it's a pretty rare version used in some trucks. And the yoke is different too. But it fits the same trans mount and ceossmember. You need a sure grip for that, a peg legger will not survive long before the spider gears break! But it will lay rubber from here to eternity.

I liked the 4 door a lot too, but had no place to keep it, and when a guy came and wanted to nuy it, I sold it. Although it had all the NHRA spec safety equipment, people just couldnät believe it run as well as it did. It weighed 3510 lbs, and run a best of 10.51/ 133 mph in street trim, and that's with radial DOT tires and 3.23 gears. The top speed was 175 mph at 7000 rpm, and the suspension was a copy of early "green brick" valiant with quick ratio manual steering, so it handled pretty well too. I sold it as a roller because of a new project, still in the development stages. Hope it will become the quickest C-body street car in the world: http://www.bigblockdart.com/photopos...edium/vip7.jpg
But not totally out of A-bodies either, we are putting together a new powerplant for a '69 valiant too: [url]http://kuvablogi.com/blog/745/5[/url

[George G. Leverette]

Stroker Mike I did a 77 440 engine tranny in a 73 Duster. Any conversion is a PIA and requires patience, time and money. Its easy to modify the K-member
and drop the engine in and connect the tranny, the small block wiring will work on the RB. The problem areas is the hood brace has to be clearenced to fit the air cleaner, the factory exhaust manifolds fit very close to the brake master, and the right side exhaust manifold finall burned a hole in the right sheet metal. A great conversation piece that I sold after 8 years. OH the radiator has to be changed, the drive shaft shortened and power steering will fit with the right exhaust system. The Schumacher spool mounts are a PIA and need to be re-designed, sugggest a K-member mod instead. Go to
www.bigblockdart.com and ask the same question>

[swingin72]

Stroker Mike -- I'm in San Jose too and I drive a '72 Dart with a 451 in it. I'm running a 727 and attest that it fits fine. There are times when I think the 400 block is tight... I'm not sure I'd go through the extra pain to do a 440 in the A-body. The 451 is slightly more cubes and less overall size. I'd recommend it. Definitely check out bigblockdart.com. I'll be at the Pleasanton Good Guys on Saturday 3/24 if you wanna stop by and check the car out. I can give you all kinds of info about a BB Dart. Feel free to PM me...

-Steve

[brent vendsel]

I'm doing mine right now, 69 440 into a '67 dart 270. it is a pain in the a.. at times, but i know how fast the 69 300 that the 440 came out of was, and all my blood on the floor, bench, assorted nuts, and sharp edges caused by an angle grinder will be worth it when i get it goin. it will be nose heavy, and those new champions will not last forever, but once the rear tires grab some traction with the help of a welded up 3:55 8 3/4 twisting the body (but not as much as before, thanks too some homeade frame connectors and some of my blood)it will be worth it.
i just hope that my cable that i put on from the k frame to the motor mount will hold it down enough, so that my modified steering column(no more column shift) will not contact my modified (grinder) manifold and stop me from steering. oh yeah, i also used shumacher mounts, but the bisquit style, no gravy. just a little blood from cutting the k frame to clear the oil pump.
hope this helps, like i said , it will be worth it. if you do want to do it, bigblock dart .com is a good place for info, and friendy info at that. kinda like here.