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  #1  
Old 03-31-2007, 09:17 AM
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Default 518 conversion

Anyone tried this? With cheap gas here at $3.25 and rising, an overdrive with lockup has got my attention.

"..will produce a 30 to 40% increase in gas mileage.."

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2007, 10:18 AM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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I was told the size of the tunnel is an issue in A bodies. I was looking at several diferent od options, as well. I will be watching this post, cause my 904 is fried, so I might as well do it if I can!
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2007, 03:08 PM
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Dude, the A-518 into an older MOPAR is old news. As you've been here since 2003, I'm sure that you've seen all of the threads about the A-518 conversion. It's even in the archives. It's just that you can longer download the instructions. I just need to email them to you.

They were smart enough not to show the major surgery of the cross member above the tranny. I would attach a GV OD to the rear of my tranny before I would butcher the tranny tunnel. Heck I would install the Keisler OD automatic long before I would consider cutting up my tranny tunnel.

They also have some mis-leading/incomplete information on their website.

Quote:
The way governor pressure works is 1 pound of pressure per square inch equals 1 mile per hour unless someone has changed the tire size, or rear end ratio, or governor springs and weights. The vacuum switch acts as a throttle position sensor and the oil pressure switch acts as a speed sensor.
They clearly do not provide what tire size and gear ratio they are stating. They also forget to mention that body weight also has a role in this. I would much rather have the system work based off of speed than guesses from vacuum and oil pressure.
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2007, 10:18 PM
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Please e-mail them - I just paid $3.39 for regular and my empathy for my stock transmission tunnel is at an all time low. In fact, taking an air chisel AND a hammer to it would probably relieve a lot of tension right about now. I hadn't got around to reading the threads on the A-518 conversion because to be honest, it was never in my plans before. I found that site last night and just had time to paste it before I got thrown off the computer. I have a good friend with a 73 Charger who is in the process of sliding one behind a stroked 340 with Eddys and a six pack, so I knew it was feasible.
To be honest, with Gear Vendors wanting $2495 (not including labor), and Keisler probably a good deal more, neither of those is an option. I'd love to, but it just ain't going to happen.
Don't worry about the transmission tunnel in a rusty old /6 Duster - worry about what I'd love to do the rust free 67 Charger in the garage once all the other projects leave me some free time. Anyone got a plasma cutter I can borrow...?

Seriously - thanks for the heads up
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2007, 01:53 AM
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The problem with the tunnel is that you are cutting a chunk of frame. Reshaping it and welding it back in. As the torsion bars are in this frame, the uni-body tends to twist a little, when it is cut out. Then when you fabricate the new frame piece and weld it back in, the car has a bit of a twist in it. That twist will make a front end alignment impossible. So, you either need to put the car on stands and remove the torsion bars or you need to find a way to secure the front suspension, so it does not twist.

Unless you are a good welder and familiar with this type of work, it is best left to a professional. That puts you well above the cost of a GV unit.

As far as installation of a GV unit goes, this is something that almost anyone can do. You most likely have all of the tools that you would need to remove the existing tail shaft and install the GV unit, while the tranny is still in the car. Then you only need to get your drive shaft shortened or buy a new one.

I did get your PM and will email you the article that I have.
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2007, 04:13 AM
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NZ 440R/T NZ 440R/T is offline
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Thumbs down

Stay well away from the Gear Vendors crap. If anyone knows this, it's me.
Read my thread here: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/in...?topic=23610.0

The stock unit is "OK" but still has a bad honing/searching sound between OD in/out. It's pathetic, splitting gears is nothing more than a gimmick. We went with the Autoshift sequencer new unit. We've spent $10K USD on R&D on GV's behalf and it's still not working. The only reason they made this is because the stock GV system had bad delay and is impossible to get smooth through every gear. My stock 727 would walk all over someone trying to split the gears. So, we basically spent $10K to get one extra gear. GVs have bad customer service, they try to help but make up BS when any money is mentioned. I paid for a product that I never got, doesn't work how they said it would (far from it) and I'm fed up with it all. The driveshaft is easy, it's around 2ft in size and getting a custom or making one isn't hard at all and should be no problem.

I would go with a A518 as you still need a little tunnel banging to fit the GVs, not much, about 1" over the two dimples on the OD. Install is easy with the GVs, the electronics in the new system are the problem. That and poor drivability. OD kicks out when it wants, splitting gears can take anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 (no joke) depend on how "it" feels that particular time of day.

Get a Keisler manual or 4-Speed and shift when you want.


My 0.02c
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:35 AM
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Gear splitting is a stupid gimmick. The original purpose of the GV unit is as an OD, not a gear splitter. People that have used it as an OD have had NO problems with it.

I read into the stuff that they had for gear splitting and it sounded unreliable and it sound like a pain in the butt to use. It is not automatic in any form. Now when set to straight OD, the system does function automatically and flawlessly.
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  #8  
Old 04-01-2007, 06:18 AM
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NZ 440R/T NZ 440R/T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehostler View Post
Now when set to straight OD, the system does function automatically and flawlessly.
In the stock form, yes. In the autoshift unit, no.

The autoshift unit runs from the rpm tach signal where-as the old system runs off the mph. The autoshift sequencer is very sloppy and kicks out on average every 6 miles. We made a bypass, when the car is put into OD I click a switch that holds it in gear. When I get down to under 20mph I flick the switch to disengage OD, obviously not how the car should be working but it's make-shift until GVs make their "new" modules. They are looking at running it off the rpm signal still but in final gear making it read off mph instead. It sounds easy so I have no idea why they can't make their module do this. Come on after ##mph and drop out after ##mph - simple.

What annoys me the most after this 2 year piss around is the fact Gear Vendors never came to the party, if we were in the USA I would have taken them to court and won, my case is that strong against them. However, I'm biting the bullet, letting others know and couting my loses. I tried, and tried and tried to "love" this system and will myself into liking it but at the end of the day, it's nothing more than an extra gear with a gimmick of a sales pitch in "splitting gears" which I fell for and got a [buy now] finger for but hey? I didn't know what I do now and their sales pitch got me, which could be classed as false advertising. To put it simply: I paid for a product that doesn't work as advertised and am now paying big $$$ to fix something they shouldn't have been selling and should be refunded or fixing it for me.

So, I would not get the Gear Vendors or recommend it to anyone, not even the stock system. Why pay $2,200 + install/time to get an OD gear?!? Go find a A518 and do the mild bodywork and save yourself $1,800. Or, better yet, go buy a manual.


Cheers,
Carl
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2007, 06:53 AM
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I'd love to see where you can get a rebuilt A-518 with all of the needed electronics for only $400. The A-518 will run a minimum of $600 and may still need a rebuild (about $700). Then you have to get all of the electronics (another $100 - $300). Then bay some one to do the 'minor' bodywork (cutting the transmission cross member and keeping the body from tweaking isn't minor in my book) about another $100 - $300. So, we are now up to the range of $1,500 - $2,000. OK, so you are still under the cost of a GV. For his application, it is no big deal to butcher the floor and tranny tunnel. For my applications, it would kill the value of the vehicle by a whole lot more than $700.

Nope, I'd still go with the GV unit and the original OD system. Yes, it sucks that they screwed you on the pipe dream of gear splitting. As soon as they told me that I was going to have shell out the bucks for them to fix the problems, I would have been asking for a refund or getting the law involved. Of course, I am in the US, so I would have had a couple of laws on my side. You being overseas may have some international laws on your side.
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2007, 10:29 AM
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NZ 440R/T NZ 440R/T is offline
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Wink



Well, when I looked at it the A518 was a little cheaper than that. Finding a core at a junk yard was the hardest part. Anyhow, it wasn't a total figure or me stating real world numbers, piss take if anything. Wouldn't bother me if it were $100 less, the end result is still an OD and an OD.

As for GVs, well, that's your take, I still see no point in paying over $2,200 for one extra gear. Sure, you get to keep your #'s tranny but when you're putting a GV unit in the owner obviously doesn't care too much about being "factory correct" so you may as well include any aftermarket system and broaden the search. I mean, who wants to buy a product from someone who sell their units incomplete and still in prototype stage....hmmmmm? very professional, like their "tech" guys.

As for the law, too much hassle and I really can't be stuffed to tell you the truth. If the company was local, definitely. But, being over there it's just too much. At least I now know their customer service and new products are complete crap.


Cheers,
NZ
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2007, 12:16 PM
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Jacksdad Jacksdad is offline
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Got your PM. I'll download the other stuff in the archives at work - faster connection and free paper/ink (just don't tell the boss...). I can weld so the fabrication isn't a problem. It's a shame I'm not doing the conversion now as one of the first orders of business is new floorpans - would have made it so much easier for me to do it all at the same time. A rebuilt 904 will do for now (I already have the tranny, a B&M flexplate and a Hughes converter sitting on the garage floor), but I'd love to eventually have comfortable RPMs on the freeway, decent rear end gears and reasonable gas mileage. Thanks for the help
NZ 440R/T - sorry to hear about your problems. Hope everything works out.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2007, 01:53 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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NZ - I can modify an all original car with a GV unit in about 2 hours. Then if I ever decide to sell the car, I swap in the original tail shaft. There would be nothing to hurt the value of the car. You can NOT say that, when you butcher the floor and tranny cross member. This is permanent damage to the vehicle/value. Even if you kept all of what you chopped out, no one is going to give you full value, after they look under the vehicle and see all of the surgery.

As I stated, for his application, the A-518 would probably be fine as it can't hurt the value any. For something like my bone stock '68 Charger that still has all of it's original sheet metal, the A-518 mod would kill the value. The GV mod would not hurt the value, as it can be returned to original state in not time.

Over the years, you are the only complaint that I have heard about GV. And then it is a complaint over a part of the system that most of us would have no need for. I cannot say bad about a company, when the majority of people that I have talked to have had no problems with the companies product and the only person that has had a problem is with a a part of the product line that I would not buy.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:50 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZ 440R/T View Post

In the stock form, yes. In the autoshift unit, no.

I wouldn't badmouth the whole product line because of one faulty feature.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2007, 05:57 PM
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NZ 440R/T NZ 440R/T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
I wouldn't badmouth the whole product line because of one faulty feature.
It's not bad mouthing, Gear Vendors are pulling the plug on the new system and making new modules to fix this fault (not staying in OD). I will bad mouth a product that doesn't work. GVs admit this themselves. If you've been through what I have and found out what I know after talking to the head of the corp (RJ) on and off for nearly 2 years then we'll talk. If they can't get it to work or simply have no idea and they made it, then I feel it's safe to say the product is pretty much a turd. Their stock system, no worries. This is the new autoshift module.


Cheers,
Carl
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2007, 02:46 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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www.moparaction.com had a article on converting an A-body to a 518 tranny.
Could be some helpful hints contained there.
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2007, 03:39 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZ 440R/T View Post
It's not bad mouthing,
Gosh, I guess "Stay well away from the Gear Vendors crap." has a different meaning below the Equator.
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