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  #1  
Old 07-07-2007, 06:21 PM
titan titan is offline
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Question Transgo TF-1 question

hi, about to do a 727 rebuild.not looking for neck snapping shifts. I am building for dependability though,useing Red clutches,new red front band,bolt-in sprag and other small tricks. I was going to use the Transgo TF-2 which I have used several times in the past,but they were always in much more race oriented cars.would I be happier with the TF-1 in a street cruiser or just go with the TF-2?is the TF-2 kit just a TF-1 with a few more parts in which I could just purchase a TF-2 kit and only install it as a TF-1 and if I am not happy with it, go back in and complete it to TF-2 specifications? Thanks
  #2  
Old 07-07-2007, 09:47 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Biggrin

Forget the tf2 adn just get a kit from TCI. That way you can get it set up exactly how you want it without having to guess at it. They have different levels and there available. www.tciauto.com
  #3  
Old 07-07-2007, 10:40 PM
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no,I would not use a T.C.I. or B&M,IMO they are junk,been building my own and others trannies for many years. need legitimate advise on my original question.
  #4  
Old 07-07-2007, 10:53 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Biggrin

Well, TCI has nothing but quality products that you can even get custom made to your needs. Now I will agree that b&m sells nothing but junk. And the advice is nothing but legite at all times. Now you can mix and latch and leave out parts from that cheap tf2 kit, but, your just guessing at what you will get with your results. You can even a get a decent frim shift without even using a kit. You can do that by upping your line pressure and removing the accumulator spring,adding a 5.0 hemi band lever and so on and so forth without using a kit.
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:22 PM
Dukes2fast Dukes2fast is offline
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Call Transgo and ask them. You have used the TF2 and liked it. I don't know anyone that has not been happy with this kit in a street car. You can drive it as an auto or shift. I have a cousin and good friend, that are both transmission mechanics, and they both love the TF2 for a 727. I am glad I went with the TF2.
  #6  
Old 07-08-2007, 03:34 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwc43 View Post
Well, TCI has nothing but quality products that you can even get custom made to your needs. Now I will agree that b&m sells nothing but junk.

Will you take my challenge and separate the TCI parts from the B&M parts out of a pile from mixed brand transmissions/kits? Betcha can't.


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And the advice is nothing but legite (sic) at all times

Buwahahahahahahaha!!!!


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You can even a get a decent frim shift without even using a kit. You can do that by upping your line pressure and removing the accumulator spring

Removing the accumulator spring has NO EFFECT on the shifting. (one of the oldest Mopar myths)
So much for your "legit advice".

The fact is, there are no home-brewed shift improvements that will equal the performance of a good reprogramming kit like the TF-2; and, unlike some who are hung up on brand names, I am willing to back up that statement with detailed technical data.
  #7  
Old 07-08-2007, 05:19 PM
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Biggrin

That's just your bias John. And removing that spring makes a lot of ddifference. That's why every kit says remove it, along with the Mopar Perfomance chassis book and B.J.'s Transmissions. You can call him if you like. And no, I wont take that piddly challenge. I aint about to waste my money sending it to b&m to buy there junk. Been there done that, aint going back.
  #8  
Old 07-08-2007, 05:52 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Originally Posted by dwc43 View Post
That's just your bias John.

I don't have product bias, if I recommend a product I do so based on sound technical knowledge of that product, not blind brand loyalty. Unlike you, I am willing to back up my assertions; something you have never done.



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And removing that spring makes a lot of ddifference (sic).


Wrong, as usual. No matter how many times a myth is repeated (or by who), it's still a myth. If you're so sure, explain the workings of the accumulator and especially the spring; don't be afraid to get real technical.



Quote:
That's why every kit says remove it,


Careful with the word "every", not every kit says to remove it; TransGo and Superior both clearly state that the spring is to be installed and these two kit makers' products are far more technilogically advanced than TCI . Maybe you should restrict your comments to something you have actual knowledge of. (Yea, right)



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And no, I wont take that piddly challenge.


You mean you can't take the challenge because you're talking out your rectal orifice as usual.



Quote:
I aint about to waste my money sending it to b&m to buy there junk. Been there done that, aint going back.

Looks like you don't know junk when you see it, here's another case of a TCI unit going bad right out of the box:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=2#Post3614546
  #9  
Old 07-08-2007, 06:28 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Biggrin

No blind loyalty here either. I only use the best parts that wont let me down and cost me money in the long run. Yeah, I can take the challenge if you want to send me the money for two kits. I wasting mine on b&m junk or on the likes of you. And, if you'll read the Mopar Chassis manual there'sa great article in there that tells you how to make a manual reverse tranny just by removing parts and drilling a hole. Including removing that accumulator spring again. Holds like 90 psi line pressure too. Good read, you should look it.
  #10  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:33 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Originally Posted by dwc43 View Post
No blind loyalty here either. I only use the best parts that wont let me down and cost me money in the long run.

Still lots of rhetoric and no offer of proof, the dwc legacy.

It's obvious from the link I provided (did you bother to look? I can provide more) that not everyone has your (supposed) outstanding luck with TCI products. As time goes by it appears that they are earning their reputation for Total Crap Inside.



Quote:
Yeah, I can take the challenge if you want to send me the money for two kits.

No need to spend a penny, I have repeatedly posted pictures of the kit contents directly from the B&M and TCI sites right here on this forum and you have still refused to point out a single difference in the kits. (they both even use the same picture in their ads)


Quote:
I (?) wasting mine on b&m junk or on the likes of you.

Translation: You can't back up your mumbo-jumbo, never could, never will.


Quote:
And, if you'll read the Mopar Chassis manual there'sa great article in there that tells you how to make a manual reverse tranny just by removing parts and drilling a hole. Including removing that accumulator spring again. Holds like 90 psi line pressure too. Good read, you should look it.

I have not only looked at it, I have been building those RMVB's for over 35 years and there's a whole lot more to it than removing parts and drilling a hole (more misinformation), it involves the use of a critical part that hasn't been available from Mopar for over 20 years.

Continually repeating how many sources recommend removing the spring in no way proves that it improves shifting; what would be convincing would be a short simple explanation from you of how the spring works and how its absence improves the shift but you can't do that, can you?

I, OTOH, can explain the origin of the spring myth and why it's a myth but you wouldn't be interested in fact or truth; you'd rather continue at your specialty and spread myth and misinformation.
  #11  
Old 07-10-2007, 10:41 AM
63Fury 63Fury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
I, OTOH, can explain the origin of the spring myth and why it's a myth but you wouldn't be interested in fact or truth; you'd rather continue at your specialty and spread myth and misinformation.
John

Not to get into this flame fest but can you explain this to me as I am interested. I have been building 904 and 727 trans for like 15 years, just for friends and myself. I like doing the rebuilds and I like to expand my education from techs with more experience than I. You see for ALL strip trans I build I only use Cheetah manual VB. For street tranies I usually don't buy the shift kit I just toss the spring and tighten up the line pressure. I was always under the understanding that the spring was used to take the shock out of the intermediate band apply. In other words when line pressure is directed to the intermediate band servo circuit, pressure builds against the servo spring and accumulator spring and thus softens the 1-2 up shift. I think I even read in an old Chrysler service manual that a customer complaint of a hard 1-2 up shift could be caused by excessive line pressure or a stuck accumulator.
Thanks
John
  #12  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:21 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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The accumulator spring is the subject of much myth, and the myth just keeps getting repeated (even by people with SAE behind their name).

The sole purpose of the outer spring is to position the accumulator piston at the end of its bore when there is no pressure on the system; when the trans is initially placed in a forward gear, fluid pressure forces the piston against the spring which offers a cushioning effect to the application of the rear clutch. This is the only time the spring cushions anything and it's done with the car at a standstill.

When the 1-2 upshift occurs the piston moves in the opposite direction, (AWAY from the spring) so the spring has absolutely no cushioning affect on the shift. The cushioning that the accumulator supplies on the 1-2 upshift is strictly a hydraulic function, it "accumulates" fluid to slow down the application of the kickdown band.

For those who care to do a little research on the subject, grab any Factory Service Manual from the late sixties-on and study the fluid flow diagrams in the Torqueflite section. It will become quite apparent that the accumulator piston never moves toward the spring on upshifts, it actually moves AWAY from the spring on the 1-2 upshift and stays in that position during the 2-3 upshift. The spring can offer no cushioning to the upshift unless the piston moves toward it, it doesn't. The only accumulator modification that will affect the upshift is to block the piston; this is why a stuck accumulator will cause a harsh 1-2 shift as the FSM states.

The spring myth probably arose from the known fact that the accumulator cushions the 1-2 upshift. Knowing this fact and observing the presence of a spring easily leads to the assumption that the spring is the cushioning agent when, in reality, the cushioning is a strictly hydraulic function (similar to a suspension hydraulic shock absorber).

The often repeated "poor man's shift kit" advice in MA and elsewhere to crank the line pressure adjuster to the max and toss the spring produces a noticeable result solely because of the raised line pressure, not the spring removal.

For those who are still not convinced, ask yourself this question: if simply removing the spring eliminates the cushioning effect why do most of the reprogramming kits include a blocker rod to block the piston's movement?
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