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  #1  
Old 08-04-2007, 11:34 PM
RR3834bbl RR3834bbl is offline
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Idea Flat Tappet Lifter Suppliers

I just read a tech article from Hot Rod magazine, which states that there are only two flat tappet lifter manufactures besides GM currently in the U.S.A. All others are foreign made and of questionable build quality. That makes me wonder what Mopar is using in their purple shaft kits?

I'm looking to use a stock magnum purple shaft grind and don't want to get stuck with less than good quality lifters. I'm sure Mopar wouldn't do that, but it is an honest question to ask. You just never know these days.
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2007, 11:49 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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I'm pretty sure that same article in Hot Rod had quotes and findings from different cam manufactors about their lifters. I've always used Comp Cams with no problems.
Knock on wood! My opinion, the old Mopar might not, but the new Mopar just might. Remember "we have to answer
to the stock holders"
If you want the purple cam but don't trust Ma's lifters, use somebodies that you trust, or talk to a good hi-performance
engine builder and see what he runs.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2007, 01:13 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilks3 View Post
I'm pretty sure that same article in Hot Rod had quotes and findings from different cam manufactors about their lifters. I've always used Comp Cams with no problems.
Knock on wood! My opinion, the old Mopar might not, but the new Mopar just might. Remember "we have to answer
to the stock holders"
If you want the purple cam but don't trust Ma's lifters, use somebodies that you trust, or talk to a good hi-performance
engine builder and see what he runs.
Just use an "old" oil wiht the good stuff still in it, like "Rotella" or diesel motor oil. Cam failures can be traced to a large part to the new oils that have little or none of the old addatives that solid lifters need.
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Old 08-05-2007, 08:02 AM
moparmarc moparmarc is offline
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I agree with Pishta.

I believe a lot of the bad rep lifters have got in the last few years turned out to be linked to the lack of certain additives in the newer oils.
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Old 08-05-2007, 07:22 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Additives in oil won't cause a hydraulic lifter to clatter right out of the box but poor quality will.

Regardless of the brand name of the lifter, you can be certain it wasn't made by any cam manufacturer; lifter manufacture is a very specialized process and is always "outsourced".
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:31 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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But some outsourced stuff is junk. Remember the GM camshafts in the early 80's that weren't heat treated right?
For sure wasn't the oil back then. Autoparts chain had problem with water pumps maybe 5 or so years ago, had changed suppliers. Cheaper pumps. Again it was about bottom dollar to the stock holders.
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:02 PM
RR3834bbl RR3834bbl is offline
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rolleyes2 More Lifter Info...

I’ve done some exhaustive research over at my favorite Internet search engine and have dug up some good information for those of us who would like to continue using old school hydraulic flat tappet camshafts in their vintage muscle car. As far as I have found, there are apparently two made in the USA flat tappet manufactures, Stanadyne and Johnson, that supply your average run of the mill tappets to most all of the big cam companies. So for instance, if you buy a Crane, Comp, Lunati, and even Ma-Mopar, the lifters in the kit will be from one of the two USA companies. Of course there are also the specialty companies out there making genuine works of art, but I am talking about standard production type lifters that everyone gets in their new cam kits. Then there are poor quality lifters from off shore companies that are to some extent seeping into the market. So what brand of lifter do you have in your vintage Mopar?

According to the boys over at the moparstyle chat room, they have had nothing but problems with the Stanadyne brand hydraulic lifters (circa 2005) and give the following tip to finding out if your new set of lifters are okay or if you need to chuck them:

“Check the new lifters before putting oil in them- press lightly with the pushrod- you only need to move them about .080 or so and see that they return on their own.”

Interestingly, a tech article posted at the Hot Rod Magazine web site states that the Stanadyne Corporation currently has 70 percent of the flat tappet market. I don’t know about you, but if multiple people have hade issues with a certain brand lifter, I’m thinking that part will not be going in my car. And this is clearly not a lube issue but one of internal build quality.

The good news, another post from the same thread at the moparstyle chat room pointed out that a company called Specialty Engine Components L.L.C., or SEC is once again making the Johnson brand lifters. I checked out their web sight and noticed right away that this company looks like a smaller speed shop oriented company that is dedicated to providing top-notch automotive parts to the performance enthusiast. While on the other hand, the Stanadyne web site looks like a corporate big wig company that is only in it to produce volume and therefore big profit numbers for the boys in the board rooms who care nothing about individuals in the muscle car hobby. That is just my take, but could this be circumstantial evidence that would seem to support the data that Stanadyne has 70 percent of the lifter market, and that people have had quality issues with their products?

More interestingly, both of these tappet manufacturers hold ISO quality certificates. The Stanadyne Corporation posted at its web site that three of their separate manufacturing facilities were certified in the years 2000, 2002, and 2004. While Specialty Engine Components L.L.C., the maker of the Johnson brand lifters shows two ISO quality certificates, 1996 and 2002. I was once employed in a manufacturing job where the company continually had ISO audits and subsequent ISO quality certificates. From that experience, I know that the ISO quality audits where quite extensive. But even with that much of an emphasis put on quality assurance; there would still be product lots with faulty parts that would somehow make it all the way to the customer, something that is bound to happen when the human factor is involved. Perhaps the Stanadyne Corporation had a couple lots of bad lifters make it to a handful of customers during 2005 production year? Does anyone want to try the Stanadyne lifters and find out how good the quality really is? Or maybe they are already in your car and may or may not be doing the job?

Of course for those of you with gobs of money to blow on your engine build, there are the specialty brand lifters like Schubeck lifters that are virtually indestructible and don’t have to be changed out during a cam swap. But I can’t imagine springing the $720.00 for a set of lifters. As for the other less expensive specialty variable duration lifters like Rhodes, I don’t have experience with them, and cannot comment. I wonder if Rhodes makes their own lifters or modifies those from one of the lifter manufactures?

At any rate, I sent an e-mail to the SEC sales department to find out pricing and availability on their lifters. I will also be contacting Mopar Performance to find out if they can tell me what brand lifter is in their lifter boxes marked Mopar Performance. I don’t know, perhaps I am picking apart the issue way too far, but in the end, I think that if I am running good oil with liberal amounts of ZDDP and a known quality lifter tappet, that greatly diminishes the possibility of problems in my high performance muscle car engine. But please, don’t take my word for it; I’m by no means an expert. Check out the links I’ve included and tell me if there is something I have missed.



http://www.moparstyle.net/forums/sho...d.php?p=998790

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...appet_cam_tech

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/index.asp

http://www.sec-llc.com/sec_home.html

[url]http://www.schubeckracing.com/inde
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Old 08-06-2007, 10:26 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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Great info! I think if my current cam pukes, I'm going the hydro roller gig. More money but in the end I'm done
(should be) with cam/lifter problems. Thanks again for da'info!!!
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2007, 12:14 AM
RR3834bbl RR3834bbl is offline
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Arrow Hydraulic Rollers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilks3 View Post
I think if my current cam pukes, I'm going the hydro roller gig.
Yes, I too have contemplated going the Hydraulic Roller rout, but think to myself, there are more moving parts to go wrong. I’m totally going out on a limb here, but perhaps in the end, it's all the same longevity depending on maintenance and driving habits
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Cudadrag Cudadrag is offline
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If you want top of the line Schubeck Racing valve train components is where to go. Joe is a friend of mine and a master machinist (and very much a perfectionist.) http://www.schubeckracing.com/flathydraulic.html.

The last time I talked with him he was considering wrapping up his shop and retiring from the valve train business, but it is worth a try. He is very high buck (about $700 for a set of 16 hydraulic.) Not sure if he has hydraulic for Mopar. But once upon a time he was one of the Mr. Hemis (392)
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
RR3834bbl RR3834bbl is offline
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Arrow SEC Johnson Brand Lifters...

I have been trying for a couple of weeks now to pin down somebody at SEC to find out how I could purchase a set of their hydraulic flat tappet lifters as they are supposedly a top quality lifter manufacture. So today I got through and spoke to Joe Lewis in the lifter sales department at SEC. Joe asked me if I am a lifter user meaning that I am not a dealer of some kind. I told him yes, and he then referred me to Comp Cams. I asked him if Comp Cams is the only cam company that SEC sells to and he replied that this is the case.
At that point I tried to call Comp Cams tech support to see if they can confirm the extent to which they purchase lifters from SEC. I’d like to know if the SEC Johnson brand lifters are exclusive through Comp Cams. Unfortunately, there are not enough hours in the day to wait on the phone line, so I’ll have to try again some other time.

Interestingly, moparchat user, Dukes2fast recently did a post describing a quality issue he had with a set of Comp Cams lifters, which makes me wonder if anyone cam produce and sell a good quality lifter this day in age? Perhaps this is how manufactures phase out products line
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:45 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Check these out. I bought a set and they came in a Johnson box with Sealed Power/Melling/Napa cross reference numbers on them. I got them for $46 delivered about 3 years ago. Someone told me they were slant 6 lifters but they cross to both numbers (?) Maybe the "adjustable rocker" negates any minute height differences? Work/fit perfectly in my adjustable rocker 451.
This was on a similiar ad for these lifters:
"Chilled Iron, made in USA by Johnson for Melling . These lifters are very rare and non-existent now, since Johnson went out of business. Similar lifters can now be purchased Comp. Cams for $ 133.00 set."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/273-3...spagenameZWD1V
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:14 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pishta View Post
This was on a similiar ad for these lifters:
"Chilled Iron, made in USA by Johnson for Melling .
If those lifters are indeed chilled iron, be careful what you use them on, chilled iron lifters are compatible with steel and hardface overlay cams only.
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2007, 10:20 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Quote:
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If those lifters are indeed chilled iron, be careful what you use them on, chilled iron lifters are compatible with steel and hardface overlay cams only.
What is hardfaced overlay? Are all iron cams hardened to some degree? Would they make a lifter that didnt work with a stock cam?
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:32 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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I don't know why they would tell you that they only sell to comp cams. You can get them from the Schubeck website.

I'm pretty sure that FBO Systems also sells them.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:41 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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i just read a post that said most solid lifters were made of chilled iron, hmmm.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2007, 12:18 AM
RR3834bbl RR3834bbl is offline
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Arrow Looking through the fog...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR3834bbl View Post
I asked him if Comp Cams is the only cam company that SEC sells to and he replied that this is the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehostler View Post
I don't know why they would tell you that they only sell to comp cams. You can get them from the Schubeck website.

I'm pretty sure that FBO Systems also sells them.
Just to clarify, I asked Joe at SEC if Comp Cams is the only cam company that they sell their lifters to, which he said is the case. But that’s not including various automotive parts vendors and speed shops that are not cam companies. I should have asked Joe that question. So just maybe SEC and Comp Cams have that great of a relationship that the referral goes straight to Comp. Okay that’s another one of my conspiracy theories, but is does make one wonder.

I was just looking at the 440source web site and they have the Johnson Hylift brand lifters for sale, which would be the same lifters that SEC builds and sell to Comp Cams.

[url]http://440source.com/camlifters.htm[/ur
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