Overdrive Solution?

[BlackAce]

I came across this site.

http://tiresmoke.iwarp.com/700R4%20i...%20Duster.html

http://tiresmoke.iwarp.com/Duster.html

Where someone took an 700r4 overdrive trans with an adapater from Wilcap

http://www.wilcap.com/mopar.html#318350

and installed a 700r4 trans in his Duster. While reading this he states that he needed to cut the torsion bar cross member about 1.5" in order for it to fit. This is basically the same as Keisler's OD system they offer and you also have to notch the torsion bar cross member.

http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar/tra...omatic-4sp.asp

Here is some info from Keisler about there OD 700r4 that was on Mopar Style.

http://mopowerstyle.com/forums/archi...p/t-74901.html

So now it got me thinking why someone would spend the money on a Keisler system than just buying a Wilcap adapter.

Than I started thinking again and doing some research on the net about this and came across the 200 4r trans which is a compact OD trans and was found in Monte Carlos I believe in both v6 and v8's. If the 700 r4 is hitting the torsion bar cross member maybe the 200 4r may be a perfect fit (so to speak) without any cutting. But you would have to fabricate a cross member for the trans.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...all/index.html

I know some people are a little weird about putting GM parts in a Mopar but this would be a cheaper version than Keisler system. Which your installing a GM trans anyway.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?????? Or would it work????

[dwc43]

I don't an inferior gm junker tranny in my Mopar. After all that's why I drive and race Mopars. Don't want anything that needs the T bar mounts or frame section to be cut either. The cars are weak enough being a partial unibody car and cutting up the frame just weakens it even more. I'd pass.

[clark3033]

I have built many 700-R4s and 200-4Rs mostly stock some HI-PO'S, In my cars NO WAY! P.S. I work on every make of car that comes into our shop. BUT MY CARS ARE MOPAR! "ALL THE OTHERS, THAT'S WHERE THE DRIVING ENDS AND THE WALKING BEGINS"....LOL!!!!

[rumblefish360]

I have heard of the GM tranny being used before. I just haven't seen it upfront. I also heard the those trannys being built up to handle HI horse power. How long the last is a different story. One I can not tell.

[stroker mike]

How unfortunate that all the alternatives for adding an overdrive function to my 68 cuda are so expensive and/or labor intensive, I wouldn't be willing to make a new tunnel to house a mopar a500 or whatever, and the only other automatic od conversion I know of is gear vendors, expensive!!! unless I would be willing to go GM. There are multiple companies offering GM 4L60E's and 700r4's (same thing, basically) but there are no other alternatives that I am aware of. Even to swap auto to manual like a tremec or passon A833 od unit would require a new tunnel cut and additional expense of pedal assemblies and etc. so the mopar purist can complain, but what other alternatives do the shoestring budget enthusiast's like me have to choose from? It is the cost of 30% less gasoline usage that makes me seriously consider whatever I can find, cause my car ain't no trailer queen, it's a driver. Like, EVERY day, to and from, the works. If anyone can clue me in on a low cost alternative that will handle what we dish out, let me know!!!

[dwc43]

Might not want to hear it, but this is what I did. I bought a use Intrepid that gets 28 miles to the gallon fully loaded for less than $3000. I use it as a daily driver now and save the 10 mpg hot rods for the weekend cruises. That way I don't have to basterdised a great Mopar product with gm junk that wont hold up or cut a car that has no business being cut up. It's still a Mopar and with the 24 valve 3.5 it still runs good when you step on it.

[dodger1]

OK, I for one agree with strokermike. How many of us remember what a "hotrod" really was? I'm old enough to remember, and the goal was to take your old beater, plug in whatever component would make it better, faster, prettier, neater, whatever. The other part of the equation was "do it on the cheap" because most of us were working stiffs without a lotta $$$ or time so guys like Vic Edelbrock, Ed Iskenderian, and others stepped up and made parts that would let me bolt a 283 to a '47 Ford coupe drivetrain, or a manifold that would let me bolt twin Strombergs to my flathead or a set of Webers onto my 392 hemi. What company used the component originally never entered the equation, the only factor was "is it better than what came with my car?" That said, what the hell is wrong with the concept of using a lighter, smaller, OD automatic in my car as an upgrade to the original 3-speed? Especially if it came from a company that actually has built millions of reliable trannys of the same type? C'mon, guys. We're not talking about numbers-matching resto's here, are we?

[BlackAce]

Originally Posted by dodger1

OK, I for one agree with strokermike. How many of us remember what a "hotrod" really was? I'm old enough to remember, and the goal was to take your old beater, plug in whatever component would make it better, faster, prettier, neater, whatever. The other part of the equation was "do it on the cheap" because most of us were working stiffs without a lotta $$$ or time so guys like Vic Edelbrock, Ed Iskenderian, and others stepped up and made parts that would let me bolt a 283 to a '47 Ford coupe drivetrain, or a manifold that would let me bolt twin Strombergs to my flathead or a set of Webers onto my 392 hemi. What company used the component originally never entered the equation, the only factor was "is it better than what came with my car?" That said, what the hell is wrong with the concept of using a lighter, smaller, OD automatic in my car as an upgrade to the original 3-speed? Especially if it came from a company that actually has built millions of reliable trannys of the same type? C'mon, guys. We're not talking about numbers-matching resto's here, are we?

I have to agree here for sure! My Dart is 318 and would love to put a little OD behind and cruise nice to the shows.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and was pricing things out. The adapter cost $495 and I figured you could probably get a decent trans for about $200 then maybe add another $200 for miscellaneous stuff and you would have a complete OD system for still alot less than a Keisler OD system. Even if you spent $600 on a Hi Po 700r4 or 200 4r it would still be cheaper than keisler which is about $3000.

Right now I'm looking for a cheap 700r4 and 200 4r and see what would work best.

[Ray Bell]

I don't think anyone is ever going to save 30% on their gas bills with an overdrive...

It will save the engine and save some fuel, for sure, but unless you're running a rear end that horrendously low, you'll not save an awful lot on fuel.

[dwc43]

At least not enough fuel to pay for the conversion. I doubt you'ld get that money back if you drove the car for life.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by dodger1

OK, I for one agree with strokermike. How many of us remember what a "hotrod" really was? I'm old enough to remember, and the goal was to take your old beater, plug in whatever component would make it better, faster, prettier, neater, whatever. The other part of the equation was "do it on the cheap" because most of us were working stiffs without a lotta $$$ or time

Dude! That's Hot Roddin. What ever works or works best. Which may mean for the wallet rather than performance.
Back in the old days when people sought out an Olds rear for there rod.

Bottom line. What ever works.

[dodger1]

BTW, Wilcap was one of the first in the tranny adapter business, way back when. IIRC

[clark3033]

I built a 700R4 this spring for a friends chevy street rod, 90' core,O.H.kit red alto clutchs,alto power pak for 3-4,H.D. reaction shell(THE BEAST),wide red 2-4 band,Trans go frt pump kit,T.C.I. 5 planet frt-rear planetarys, frt-rear sprag kits,deep alum pan,Superior shift kit with billet 2-4 servo pak,new T.C.C.sol,Painless T.C.C.wiring kit ,no conv. He had around $1500 in it when I got done. Should handle 500hp.

[Ray Bell]

I'm planning to adapt an old Borg-Warner overdrive unit from a late-fifties Chrysler to an A230... that'll do me...

[dodger1]

Ahh, Ray Bell must be one of those old hot-rodders who actually knows how to fabricate stuff! Good to hear it, Ray.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

I'm planning to adapt an old Borg-Warner overdrive unit from a late-fifties Chrysler to an A230... that'll do me...

My kinda guy, here's some pics of an R-11 OD unit that I mated to an 833 4-speed.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...&a=13489828&f=

[dodger1]

JK, I think you might have started something here. Do you or anyone else know if the Laycock de Normandville OD unit that was bolted onto the back end of many 70's and 80's Volvo 4-speeds is in fact the BW unit with a different name (or vice-versa?) And would it take the torque of a V-8?

[stroker mike]

I can tell you this, a .7 od gear will help me alot on the freeway, but you are right, it may not save me 30% in gas expenditures; but it will help. My 318 drinks gasoline like football fans drink beer. I love football. But what I mean, is yes, let's find a way, if there is one, and if there ain't, let's make one. and I ran a ford 9" in my dart, look at the photo's in my garage, it needed those wheelie bars! So, what ever is gonna do it, and do it well, is fairly ok with me. I would like to suggest that ma mopar should engineer an alternative for us! There's too much love for our brand for us not to have the same alternatives that others do. or, I could always buy a 4L60E!!

[stroker mike]

Oh, yeah, you can see the dart if you search for the thread of members cars. I'll get some photos up of the cuda real soon.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dodger1

JK, I think you might have started something here. Do you or anyone else know if the Laycock de Normandville OD unit that was bolted onto the back end of many 70's and 80's Volvo 4-speeds is in fact the BW unit with a different name (or vice-versa?) And would it take the torque of a V-8?

The Laycock unit used on the Volvo and numerous British cars is the basis for the Gear Vendors OD and they're rated at 1200 hp.

The B-W unit is an entirely different design, an external solenoid and balk ring are used to engage the OD; the balk ring requires throttling back to engage the OD. The Laycock has an internal piston pump that supplies pressure for a piston that engages the OD "on the fly", no need to throttle back.

[stroker mike]

as the basis for the gear vendors unit how do they 'split' the ratios? I am a complete 'don't know' in this regard. Does this mean I could get a laycock od unit and concievably adapt it to my 904 and achieve a similar result? I know that the gear vendors unit is actuated electronically as well, right? I know I'm displaying my ignorance here, but I'd really like to understand this thing.

[BlackAce]

Originally Posted by stroker mike

Does this mean I could get a laycock od unit and concievably adapt it to my 904 and achieve a similar result?

Now that would be even better!!!

[ehostler]

You ask how gear splitting works. Go to the GearVendors website and find out. I've been told that it doe3sn't really work that great. The GV website hypes it up, but once you read up on it, it doesn't sound to be worth the price.

[John Kunkel]

Gear splitting is the lesser of the GV advantages, simple OD is it's best use.

[ehostler]

I agree with you on that.

[dusterbd]

so were complaining that the use of other manufacturers parts is bastardizing our mopars. i completely disagree. i believe that on a driver, or hot rodded car, the use of the best availible parts for the applicatio is fine. im running a GM alternator, an 80's GM NASCAR ignition, etc in the duster. is it any less of a mopar because of it? no. its what worked best, weteher for performance or price. no one complains about the keisler five speed kits, but the tremec is based on the ford T5. so does that make it less of a benifit to our mopars? again, no. personally vote on going for what works, unless its a resto. i bet the puristst that are against this approach are also dissatisfied with what steve strope does to the old cars, too.

as far as the automating OD conversion, look into trans dapt as well for the adapter, and if its a mild 318, a 200R4 should hold up fine with a shift kit. i wouldnt trust it without some fortifying behind anything hot. seen too many of them killed that way.

Michael

[ehostler]

Out of a total of 25 posts (prior to yurs) in this thread, only 2 posts complained about non MOPAR parts. So, why do you feel the need for the rant??

[stroker mike]

Hey, I did go to GV's site a while back but they only explain WHAT it does, not HOW, mechanically, that is. I saw the six speed in Kenny Wayne Shep's Charger and Troy Trepanier's Cuda, among other well known builds, and figured I could take em seriously. Tremec tko's are awesome, I want the one with the od 5th gear, not the 1:1. I bet you could lauch it real nice with that first gear in front of a 3.55 or better!!! I will have to save a long while for that one.

[ehostler]

Gear splitting is done by using OD in each gear. They have a computer that tries to do this. So, you have 1st, 1st over, 2nd, 2nd over, 3rd, 3rd over.

At one time, they had a full description of how it was supposed to work. I can not find it on their website now.

[clark3033]

I've grown up Mopar in a GM and Ford area and have been razzed hard about my Mopars threw the years, But it's all in good fun, When asked what I'd do, I tell them Mopar or no Car but thats me. But if I was in their shoes I'd go with what every brand they've had the best luck with, besides if they all drove and raced Mopars I'd be out of a job!.....LOL!