holley on a 318????

[poomwah]

anyone running a holley on a small block? I have a chance at getting a GREAT deal on a 600 cfm holley with a square to spread bore adapter. Should I do it?
I'm switching from 2 bbl to 4bbl, and I think I have my intake located, still havent picked a carb, I also found a great deal on a 600 edelbrock, but it is twice the price.

[peg leg]

But, what kind of 318? Cam, compression, intake type, exhaust mods? 600 Holley could be a good choice, but try to use the carb that fits the manifold without adaptors.

[poomwah]

is an 81 318, that is currently stock. I want to do away with the lean burn system and convert from 2 to 4 bbl. I MIGHT get headers I don't know. Maybe a cam someday
so, since the carb I can get a great deal on is a square bore, I should pass on it?
and I'm guessing that a high rise intake is a bad idea no matter how good the price?

[TK]

The holley, and a performer manifold will wake your 318 up nicely!

[aarracer]

Hi Poom

The edelbrock will make up /pay for the difference in price in fuel economy!!

For your application and daily driving, the holley will suck your wallet dry while only providing a minimally /barely noticible improvement in performance over the eddy!

Cheers

AARRACER

[rumblefish360]

I'll argue that AARracer. Even though I'm an Carter OE fan over anything else, the state of tune of a carb is where the power and mileage comes in.

600 cfm is very good for a mild 318 to a light race. If the Holley is beat up, pass on it. The Edelbrock carb is easyier to rebuild and cheaper to do so.

Peleg seems to be saying, use a OE, T-Q. (ThermoQuad, the OE 4bbl. carb)
While I also like these carbs, they can be a pain at times and parts to tune them are not exactly on the shelf. The adapter for a square to spread bore is not a big deal to use. It just takes longer stubs and 2 gaskets to do.

[furz4444]

I am running a 600 holley on an old streetmaster intake on my 318 in a 73 dart. Motor has small valve heads and 340 cam. I still have 2.76 gears and have gotten as high as 22 MPG highway I can pretty muych depend on 18-22 MPG if mostly highway driven. You probably don't need headers but a good dual exhaust, 2 1/4 is plenty, will do wonders.

[rumblefish360]

Agrreed. Headers do well to help a 318.

[poomwah]

well, it turns out that the intake is out. I bought a factory small block 4bbl manifold today for 35 dollars. The guy had a newly rebuilt holley carb that he wanted to sell me too, he only wanted 35 dollars for it, but its a 650, and I know thats WAY too much for my stock 318.
Just for the heck of it, I will throw this info out there. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I MIGHT be getting some parts tomorrow. Theres a guy a couple towns over who used to have a mirada. Apparently he has or had a bunch of parts that might or might not have been thrown away, I find out tomorrow. If he still has them, he's going to give them to me for free!!!! including an aftermarket distributor, headers, and dual side exit exhaust system including flow masters, a fiberglass hood with snorkel scoop (although I am pretty sure that the mirada and cordoba LS use different hoods) AND a pair of 15x10 aluminum slots!!! I already have a pair of 15x7's for the front.

[dgc333]

FWIW, I have a 10.6:1 360 that is making approx 370 HP. I am running a Holley 670 Street Avenger on it and I get 17-18 mpg on back roads and 21-22 on the hiway. That is with 3.55 gears and an A833OD tranny.

[TK]

Yep. either carb will work fine, even though I wouldn't run a holley on the street period................... Preference is a bad thing!
I love my EB's, and carters.

Problem is now, is MPG is out the window, with the big port manifold, on small port heads.

[aarracer]

Hi Rumble

First you have to figure, the guy asking the question does'nt know diddly about carbs and tuning.

Lol. Yes while obviously, the state of tune will generate the best performance in ANY carb, the eddy like the avs is much more tunable with springs, metering rods, and air valve secondaries (which apparently you are quite familiar with), while the holley is a pop bottle pouring fuel into the engine, lol. While they are great for instant success, the holley does not have the comparative tunability for the average bolt it on and run it guys that may wish to consider mileage in their choices. Don't get me wrong, I like and tune them all at - no fix - no pay!

They all work just fine, but I do not believe (and have to date never seen )any holley of comparative size that will out mile per gallon an avs or eddy type carb with equal tuning time. But then again I have only seen them for about 35 years.


To those that wish to compare 2.76 gears and overdrive transmissions in a mpg comparison - no offense but - get real - you're doing an apples versus oranges thing.


Cheers

AARRACER

[TK]

any holley of comparative size that will out mile per gallon an avs or eddy type carb with equal tuning time. But then again I have only seen them for about 35 years.

Nope, no way, just the way the different carbs function, makes this statement impossible. If it was a constant speed motor, they would still get the same.........................

[rumblefish360]

AARracer, I agree. I wasn't tryinmg to blurr the lines. Though...what ever carb is being used, mileage can go ethier way.
Problem with Carter/Edel. carbs are exacting rods. But thats pushing the issue. Ha ha ha
On the Holleys, one should be able to get exacting performance....at least for the first half of the day.

TK, the stament is dlightly off balance, like a carb would be. They would have to run like FI during all times while the comparo was going down. While the temp changes, the FI changes along with it. The carb doesn't and is now up to the carb itself on how much it changes or not.

[TK]

at least for the first half of the day.

And the second half of the day, the EB would get better..........

They both can get the same exact MPG, depending on how well each is tuned, and driver input.

[aarracer]

Hi guys

The metering rods of the eddy are far more flexible to tune than any power valve. When you show me a constant speed engine (sic), I'll take that turbine and put it in a airplane (somewhat constant speed). You MUST have driven, and street and track tuned these carbs before any imagined comparison. Of course my mother will get better mileage than my sister lol.

Cheers

AARRACER

[rumblefish360]

LOL @ the pair of replies above.....

[poomwah]

so with all this debate.... should I just put a better 2 bbl on it?

[tml1138]

This conversation is all about what I'm dealing with right now. I've got a holley 600 w/weiand stealth intake on my 318 Scamp right now and I can barely keep it running. Driving me nuts. I know very little about carbs so I'm reading up and researching right now. I'm also running into problems in that I can't get the throttle and auto kickdown linkage to hook up properly to the carb. Got the 20-7 bracket which helped some, but not enough. It's still not in the proper location and the throttle cable/accel pedal just doesn't have the right ratio to open the carb throttle a full 100%. It's pretty close, about 95%.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by poomwah

so with all this debate.... should I just put a better 2 bbl on it?

No, go 4bbl. Truly your choice. The Edebrock rebuilds easy and tunes easy and stays that way. My fav. to use.

tml1138, what adapter do you have. Remeber, nothing is perfect in this world of modifying.

[TK]

Originally Posted by poomwah

so with all this debate.... should I just put a better 2 bbl on it?

Performer, street dominator, or a dual port, and a EB peformer, 500, or 600 would work great.
A 2bbl, will leave something to be desired, you wouldn't believe how a 4bbl, and headers makes a stock 318 run!

[poomwah]

I dont really think I want to go with headers though :[ the more I think about it, I just want to "wake it up" a little. dual exhaust with stock manifolds, 4bbl and eliminate the lean burn. The more I think about it, thats the way I want to go. I just got sucked into the power power power way of thinking. I think I'm just going to throw a thermo quad on it and say the hell with it. I'm sorry for all the stuff that came from this post especially since I'm not even going to do what I started this post for in the first place

[rumblefish360]

Do what makes you happy and enjoy the car.

[poomwah]

thank you rumblefish

[aarracer]

Hey Poomwah

No problem, always a good laugh here lol.

You really should at least recurve the distributor or install an mp performance electronic ignition kit (distributor, orange ecu, and ballast resistor) which will REALLY wake up the performance with your four barrel install.

Cheers

AARRACER

[TK]

Another trick, is a set of 360 manifolds, if you don't have them already.

[poomwah]

all I have so far is a factory 4 bbl manifold sitting on a shelf, the doba is BONE stock

[rumblefish360]

I vote chrome box over the orange unit. Use with proper ballast. Otherwise, AARracer has a great idea.

[TK]

Speaking of, does anyone have documented difference between the orange, and the Chrome? The only reason I have ever heard they are different, is becasue dw said they don't last, and something about the dwell. One I know is bunk, because I have had the same orange box, since I was 16............

[tml1138]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

No, go 4bbl. Truly your choice. The Edebrock rebuilds easy and tunes easy and stays that way. My fav. to use.

tml1138, what adapter do you have. Remeber, nothing is perfect in this world of modifying.

Tell me about it. It's the holley 20-7 throttle lever extension. Do they or someone else make other adapters that will suit my needs? If so, please let me know! The mounting bracket for the throttle cable I custom made but it needs modified, but it should work fine. The auto kickdown lever is close but still not long enough so I had to do the old nut and bolt trick to shorten the slot. Still don't like that though, as I think I learned the hard way why you have to have your auto kd working properly....as I already lost my tranny once before!