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#1
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318 to 440 in 68 fury conv.
I am trying to find out about putting a 440 in my 68 fury that now has a 318. I was wondering if there were any major problems I might look for or if it will go with just changing engine mounts and small things like that? any help would be appreciated
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#2
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the trany will change from a 3 speed manual to 727 torqflight automatic.
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#3
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Quote:
Of course, it is your car and your money. I would find a different car to 440-ize if it was me. |
#4
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I second that opinion
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#5
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I third it!! You've got 3 things you should consider. 1: It's a rare car and should be preserved 2: A 68 Fury is a pretty big car, you try to make them go fast, unless you're talking top end speed only, and they start to break parts. 3: Have you noticed the gas prices lately? Even with a fairly large car, I bet that 318 will get better mileage than that 440 for cruising, even if you have a fairly heavy left foot and the 318 will be happy with regular as well.
You might want to put hardened exhaust valve seats in it if you ever have it apart though. I've got to wonder how many 68 Fury 318 3-speeds even exist at this point? I bet you'll be the only one at the car show with one. Stick a 440 in an old Dart or Valiant if you want to go fast without breaking a lot of parts making something that size and weight go fast. I realize it's probably not very snappy with a stock 318, but the cool points you'll gain with the Mopar fans who know the truely unusual should be worth it! |
#6
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Now, I understand the reasons that these suggestions are of the purist type, and that may not be what you want to hear. I am not a purist, although I prefer it a lot, but in this case, I have to agree 100%, even if for different reasons based off of my experiences with this scenario before, in the same car (almost the same, anyway).
Mopar stick shift cars are very hard to find in any variety, be it an A, B, C or E body. C-Bodys are the rarest of them all. C-Body stick shifts are damned near impossible to find in any body type. You have one in a convertable. That's impossible among the already impossible. Here's the deal; My good friend who went to school with me, went through auto body/ restoration school with me and is also into mopars has a 1967 Sport Fury, 2 door hardtop (not the fast top). The car originally came with a 318/ 727. He was going to do the same thing, in order to try and make the car fast. Mind you, the hardtop is a good chunk lighter than the convertable. After pitting the car against a big block 455 Boneville that dialed the same numbers at the drag stip, up at a club clash event and beating it's ass, he thought twice about it. After watching the 383 Fury cars do their runs, he actually found that his small block was FASTER than the 383 cars! We were very impressed with his first year ('67) 318 for it to run low 18.'s/ high 17.'s And this car has 2.73:1 gears in it! Everyone thought that his car was a 383, until they actually got to see under the hood. After a long time went by, he sold the big block 727 to his dad and decided that he is going to keep the original '67 318 with the closed chamber heads and his small block 727 in the car. His reasoning was that he knew that he could make a 440 go faster, but he didn't care anymore. He wants to drive the car places and doesn't want the car to be a gas pig. After a while, we figured that trying to make a land barge go fast was a waste of efforts. And not that it wouldn't be cool to see a 14 second C-Body, but it would totally destroy the practicality of the car on the street. No road trips, no range. His car is a street car that seldom saw the track when we were in high school, ten years ago. Now, the car NEVER sees the track, because it's always crowded with crappy imports and other vanilla variety compacts (as opposed to good imports, I have no problems with imports, but these are all Honduhs and Cavaliers)... Simply put, once the import scene blew up, the prices at the track went up, seat time at the track went WAY down and the scene just plain sucked. Test and tune nights went from a bunch of people actually using it for testing and tuning to a bunch of idiot kids who didn't know the first thing about drag racing, hitting the gas on the green light and bragging about heads up "racing" on time trials, wasting everyone elses time who actually came to the track that night for what it was intended for. Basically, the point is that there was and is no sense in my friend going with a big block for what he was going to do with his car.- Drive it. If you plan on making a lot of drag passes in the convertible, I suppose it would be worthwhile, but you could go just as fast with a built 360. Personally, I would keep it a stock 318, only because I know that anyone who will truely appreciate that '68 Fury ragtop will actually appreciate it more because it's a small block with a stick shift. Take it from someone who was for doing what you are thinking about and just leave it be. If you want to go fast, you should snap up an A-Body and build a killer smallblock for it. If you have to have a big block car, I would suggest going with a B-Body of some kind. I wouldn't recommend an A body for a big block unless you are skilled with fabrication and are willing to have an uncomfortably tight engine bay, no power steering and a car that handles like a chevy van on black ice around corners. Keep the cruiser a cruiser, man. There are plenty of things that you can do to that 318 (even if you wanted to) to make that car plenty quick. Throw some duals on it and enjoy the sound of the long pipes on the streets with the top down. They won't let you run with the top down unless you have a roll bar at the track, so it seems a bit pointless, now doesn't it? |
#7
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Nice car !!! Leave like it is. Do you have any more Pics you and share with us ? I know i would love to see more of your car.
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#8
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Cool car
Back to the question. The swap is a bolt in. Just need motor mounts and brackets. C body 440 manifolds should be easy to find, and I would think almost any vintage would work. Obviously you will need a column, OR to put in a console shifter. The console would have less headaches. Wire in a neutral safety switch for the stater relay should be fairly straight forward also. As for the value debate, I don't hear of C body's getting big money no matter what engine or trans combo they have. Important to remember that rare doesn't always mean valuable. Do what ou want with the car. The 318 3spd is a very cool novelty, but I can't imagine it would be worth any more with the 318 than it would with the 440. At least not in the real world with real buyers. I guess I just haven't ran into any 3 spd manual C body collectors recently, and never noticed the big money they were getting at barret jackson. Just my .02 Perhaps a compromise would be to use a BB belhousing on the 440, and keep the three spd manual setup? The clutch and flywheel should work on your 440 as long as it is a neutral balance (steel crank) 440 |
#9
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If you went big block, I would at least keep it a stick and go to an A-833 four speed.
In a car that heavy, the bigger engines really don't push that much better than a smaller engine unless you really start to drive the practicality down and start bumping horsepower up. My friends '67 with the original 318 was running two tenths faster than the 383 '67 at the track. Granted, the '67 318 was the best year for them and had closed chamber heads, but that says a lot about what shaving the weight of a big block from the front end will do for you. I would imagine that the 383 car wouldn't handle as nicely, either. I don't know that the factory cars went to heavier torsion bars until you got the 440 Super Commando in those cars. That is something you could do as well. |
#10
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thanks for the info. you guys have given me alot to think about. Im not that interested in keeping the car stock; I'm changing paint, wheels and suspension. I just thought The 440 (thats a steal by the way) would give the car alittle more pep for some rubber burnage would be cool. Im not looking for top end or track speed, just a loppy cam sound with peel out power.
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#11
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How much would you take for the car as it is right now?
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#12
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I hope you can buy it Dick. I hate to see rare one off cars cut up for nothing when you can get another car cheaper and not so rare for hotrodding. Not too often you find a car like that in great shape in original condition and cutting it up like that just ruins the value. Take a car like that that's worth thousands and cut it up and turn it into a $600 dollar pile. Sad, so very sad. You know, they don't make these things anymore, and once they are all cut up and gone, that's it. Nice piece of Mopar history there, hope it gets restored instead of cut up.
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#13
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Personally, I'd keep the car as is. There are plenty of ways to build that 318 to make torque and smoke the tires. My 67 318 with just 3.55 gears is pretty quick. But on the other hand what you are doing is reversible. Just make sure you weld up some real sub frame connectors. No need to twist up anything.
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#14
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6000.oo would be but a small price to save this great piece of MOPAR history.
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#15
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here's what got me hooked on this car..... the grill looks tuff. Nothin like an old MOPAR grill!! Any grill shots yall have send um!
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#16
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Quote:
12 shots @$500ea would be but a small price to save this great piece of MOPAR history and feed your grill fetish. |
#17
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THanks for the offer but I would have to at least have 50 grill shots to consider it !!!
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#18
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OK guys, he's willing to let it go for $6,000. If you aren't willing/able to buy it, then stop giving him a hard time about modifying it to what he wants.
The swap is fairly straight forward. It would be even easier, if you backed it up with a 4 speed, instead of an automatic. You need the B/RB mounts, correct radiator hoses, correct radiator and you are pretty much well good to go. The ignition lead will be longer, as the distributor will be moving to the front of the engine. I almost forgot, what rear is in the car? A big block will destroy a 7 1/4 rear. |
#19
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Good question, I'll have to check it out. I know its stock. And thanks! I'll think twice about asking about anything else on MOPARCHAT.......
Moving Our Phlapper Absentmindly Repeatedly |
#20
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Amen brother
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#21
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does anyone know what rear end came in the 68 furyIII stock?
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#22
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Being a C body, chances are it's an 8 3/4, but I can't say for sure.
If you look under, and there is no bolt on pan on the back, that's what you have. The gears go in and out the front, just like a ford 9". There is some differential info in the tech archives. |
#23
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If I decided to go with my same set up ( 318 w/t 3 speed) what are some thing I can do to get some pep. Like I said Im not interested in top end or track...just lightin um up.
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#24
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Assuming you have the 8 3/4 a gear swap will yeild instant results.
Swap in an entire pumpkin with a taller ratio 4.10 etc. I know a guy who loves to throw 4.30's in Small block c bodies to give them more pep. If you want some advice on simply hopping up the 318, I suggest you start a new thread with some basic pameters . ie ...budget, what you are prepared to give up as far as streetability, etc... |
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