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Old 10-09-2007, 12:23 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Default Shear Fuel Cell Genius

Those with fuel cells may have the familiar smell of gasoline in their garage, since the cells seem to not seal too well. Well, I took a small aquarium air pump and hooked it up to the fuel cell vent line. Now the fumes are pumped out of the cell through about 10 feet of small aquarium air hose that runs out of the garage. I use to just have a long vent line going out of the garage, but that did not seem to kill the fumes, since the fuel cell lid, and other areas, can leak as well. So far, no smell of gas in the garage, and you can definitely smell the gas fumes (if you put your nose right up to it) at the end of the hose that runs out of the garage. The pump is maintaining a slight negative pressure in the fuel cell so fumes cannot leak into the garage. Brilliant! (I'm sure some will challenge the "brilliant" conclusion)
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:41 AM
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Just be sure the motor in the pump is sealed from the gasoline fumes. You don't want the brushes generating a spark...
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:11 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Good point. Hopefully the fumes are just coming into contact with a rubber diaphram. I also don't know how long the pump material will stand up to fuel fumes. But, the pump was only $5. Good thing I have a smoke detector in the garage. Maybe this method will also keep moisture out of the fuel during winter? At least for now I'm not getting a headache (and maybe cancer) from gas fumes.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:01 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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Won't you be sucking in cold air (unless heated garage) into the cell? Not good I would think. I thought the stuff you smell in gasoline was the additives as such, aren't you now helping them evaporate sooner?
I'll bet somebody makes a vent that lets air in but won't let fumes out. Kinda like todays fuel system on newer cars.
Remember gasoline fumes are heavier than air and will "pool" in low spots, be careful what you have outside near your "exhaust hose".
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:09 PM
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How about an old charcoal canister?
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:22 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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Hooked inline at the vent? Should keep smell down, but would still let fumes out.
Isn't it called a negative pressure vent? It has a diaphram like flapper, lets air in to replace fuel that has been used but closes and won't let air, fumes out.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:45 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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Plastic Check Valve Air Water Vacuum Pneumatic Gas 3/8 Item number: 170157353696
This is on E-bay and should work perfectly in-line with your vent line. Lets air in, but not out. Check it out.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:20 PM
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Gasoline evaporates at normal atmosphric pressure fast enough that you can see its vapors,,if put under a negative pressure it should evaporate pretty darn fast leaving the heavy ends,,i.e gum and varnish in the tank..I would do as others suggested and use a charcoal filter,,been working for years on all makes,,wayne
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:43 AM
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Yeah no need for the vacuum pump when the cell is dry from evaporation.
I have a couple Jaz fuel cells, neither of them leak, or smell bad either. What brand is yours?
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:43 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Its a JAZ, and it's been a pain. A 10 gallon poly unit. Level gauge didn't work at all, and the gasket in the cap swelled and popped out after 3 months. They sent me thinker cap gaskets, and I finally dumped the level gauge and made my own out of my old Mopar gas tank. Outside the garage I can smell the gas fumes where the air pump vent line goes. I suppose I could rig up a charcoal canister filter for that. Just use the charcoal they use in aquarium filters. I'm gonna keep and eye on the gas level. I know the pump is removing fumes and might lower fuel cell level, but I'm using a very small pump, and I have varied the air leakage into the pump suction line so that I just barley smell fumes by the rear of the car. So I am keeping just the slightest negative pressure on the fuel cell. I also turn the unit off during the day when I have the garage door open. I wonder if I would have less fumes in the garage if I got an aluminum fabricated fuel cell. For now, even if I had a charcoal canister on the cell vent line, there are fumes coming from other areas of my cell, like the cap, or the level gauge gasket, I think. I've always heard that fuel cells were notorious for giving you gas fumes in the garage. Mine sure did, at least until I hooked up this little pump. Of course, if I find it removes a gallon of gas a day, I'll dump this idea. The fuel cell level gauge gasket is cork. Maybe I should make a rubber one.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:56 AM
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I think the smell of 100LL, or a good race fuel gives a garage a nice smell.

I just feel sorry for the fish.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:09 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
Good point. Hopefully the fumes are just coming into contact with a rubber diaphram. I also don't know how long the pump material will stand up to fuel fumes. But, the pump was only $5. Good thing I have a smoke detector in the garage. Maybe this method will also keep moisture out of the fuel during winter? At least for now I'm not getting a headache (and maybe cancer) from gas fumes.
It's a Good idea to have smoke detector in your garage , But if you have gas fumes in your garage and a ignition source That smoke detector is Not going to Help How do you have your cell vented , something doesn't sound right .
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:47 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_440 Savoy View Post
It's a Good idea to have smoke detector in your garage , But if you have gas fumes in your garage and a ignition source That smoke detector is Not going to Help How do you have your cell vented , something doesn't sound right .

It's a JAZ fuel cell and has a vent fitting that I attached about 2 feet of fuel line and ran the line from the cell through the trunk floor.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:24 PM
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I'm thinking a complete Halon fire suppression system in your garage. Seriously, what about setting up a complete vapor recovery (charcoal canister) set-up from any j/y donor? Not too complicated, assuming you can plumb the cell for it. Hard to believe you're having these basic issues from a glorified gastank.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:16 PM
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quote"Seriously, what about setting up a complete vapor recovery (charcoal canister) set-up from any j/y donor?" thats what i was talking about,,hit the junk yards,,wayne
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:29 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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So, what would the basic design be of a vapor recovery system? A vent hose going to a metal canister, or collection bottle, that allows the vapors to condense, and drain back to the cell (or collect in the bottle), and a charcoal canister on the vent of the collection canister to catch vapors that don't condense? The JAZ fuel cell has a vent line that attaches to a valve, which will shut if the cell is upside-down. Other wise, the fuel cell is just vented to the atmosphere. But even a vapor recovery system won't get vapors that leak out of the fuel cell cap and level gauge gasket. I'll try running my airpump hose to a collection bottle to see how much condenses.
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:58 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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Why don't you use the one-way valve and be done with it?
The one on E-bay is perfect, lets air in, but no air out.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:17 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilks3 View Post
Why don't you use the one-way valve and be done with it?
The one on E-bay is perfect, lets air in, but no air out.
Good suggestion, but on Ebay it says this:

"The check valve is rated for vacuum service from 2-29" Hg. and pressure from 1-150 psi. It is possible to seat and unseat the check just by inhaling and exhaling through it. This is a very useful item at a very reasonable price. It can replace much more expensive check valves in a lot of applications. These check valves are brand new. They are available in higher quantities, upon request. Check Out My Other Items For Sale Thanks.

IMPORTANT: Although this check valve is chemically compatible with gasoline and other fuels: plastic components, such as these, should not be installed in vehicle fuel systems. The pulsation in fuel systems, along with high temperatures will contribute to material fatigue, causing the component to fail eventually. Failure of the component may include bursting of the housing, with fuel spillage. That is why it is very rare to see a non-metal-housed component in a vehicle fuel system, as designed by the factory. The buyer assumes all responsibility for installation and use of these components."


I wonder too, if it would seat properly in a vent line with virtually no differential pressue across it. It probably needs more force to close it than just the gasoline vapor pressure, which is almost no force at all.
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger1 View Post
I'm thinking a complete Halon fire suppression system in your garage. .
They stopped making Halon some time ago. It was effected ozone just like the R-12 was suposed to do. Dang tree huggers.
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2007, 11:26 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Also, a lot of Halon can suffucate you, as it is heavier than air. Well, the little air pump diaphram lasted about two weeks, then broke, due to the gas fumes I guess. Gonna have to come up with a new method. The gears in the mind have to start turning again.
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