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  #1  
Old 11-05-2007, 01:03 PM
tdaver tdaver is offline
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Default 440 intake advice

Hi folks,

I am running a Holley Street Avenger 770 CFM carburetor on a 1972 Dodge Charger designed for Street/Strip. It has stock pistons, crank, rods. The heads are 516's with enlarged exhaust valves. I have headers and a somewhat aggressive cam. Duration is 232 at 0.05". I have my red line set at 5500 RPM.

I am looking for advice on aluminum intake manifolds. I don't believe a single plane is appropriate for me. I am considering the Performer RPM but would be happy to take advice.

Thanks,
Todd
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2007, 01:13 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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RPM might be overkill. It can have hood clearance issues too. The Holley Street Dominator is a great steet intake. It is single plane, but works down low. Not real tall either. You can get them new or used. So good Holley started repopping them. They take a Holley or a TQ without adapters
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:33 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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The Weiand Action Plus #8009 is another good street-strip
intake for a stock to mild built 440. Hot Rod mag just did a
Mopar intake comparision on a 383, but the 440 (IMO) would be close on comparing ratings. Very good article to read up on.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:35 PM
wilks3 wilks3 is offline
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The Weiand Action Plus #8009 is another good street-strip
intake for a stock to mild built 440. Hot Rod mag just did a
Mopar intake comparision on a 383, but the 440 (IMO) would be close on comparing ratings. Very good article to read up on.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:49 PM
451Mopar 451Mopar is offline
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The Performer RPm has been getting great reviews. It is supposed to make power like a single plane (at least up to 6,000 RPM), but maintain good low end torque.

I looked at the December HotRod article on the 383 intake comparison.
The Weiand Action Plus seemed really strong in the mid range, but dropped off power above 5,000 RPM. It looked slightly better than the standard Edelbrock performer. The SixPack looked pretty good too, but is an expensive setup. The Street dominator was good at high RPM, but the dual planes made alot more low/midrange torque.

Anyhow, check how much hood clearance you have, it may end up helping you decide how tall an intake you can use.
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:04 PM
tdaver tdaver is offline
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Default hood clearance

Hi folks,

Good advice so far. My current intake is a stock 1966 iron 4 hole model. The holes are considerably smaller than my 770 CFM carburetor. I think they are matched to something like a 600 CFM carb. I think this is hurting me at higher RPM. So, I am looking for something with better flow. As for hood clearance, I am currently using a 1 inch spacer with my 770 Holley and have a 3.5 inch K&N filter on top with a drop base. I will need to carefully check the clearance, but I am pretty sure any of the Weiand, Holley or Edelbrock mentioned will fit.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:19 PM
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The eddy rpm is about 2" taller than the stocker.

That said, it'll be tight.
Yes your 66 intake is about right for a 600 cfm carb.

Your cam is relatively mild. I would think a regular eddy performer would be plenty of an upgrade. You could play with spacer combinations too.

The think that is often overlooked with intakes, is that the volume of the intake is what gives you the big gains. (tunnel ram....really big runners)
The rpm is tall so that makes it bigger.

Spacers under the carb increase the volume of the intake also.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:10 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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To check hood clearance, roll up a ball of playdough, put it on top of your aircleaner, then close the hood. Open hood, and measure thickness of playdough, which maintains the shape after being squished. Allowed me to use a single plane and eventually have 1/4 inch hood clearance, after machining a little off the top of the intake. So, before chucking the intake for clearance reasons, you can machine them, assuming you've tried everything else like different shaped airfilter housings, etc.
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:30 AM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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What cam do you have? 232 duration? My RV cam is 252*

That intake you have now is designed for a tiny carb. I have a 65 or 66 AFB and it is smaller than a 600 Eddie AFB.

No porting on the 516's? Those are mighty small ports. I like the chambers on them.
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:58 PM
OriginalB1 OriginalB1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave571 View Post
The eddy rpm is about 2" taller than the stocker.

That said, it'll be tight.
Yes your 66 intake is about right for a 600 cfm carb.

Your cam is relatively mild. I would think a regular eddy performer would be plenty of an upgrade. You could play with spacer combinations too.

The think that is often overlooked with intakes, is that the volume of the intake is what gives you the big gains. (tunnel ram....really big runners)
The rpm is tall so that makes it bigger.

Spacers under the carb increase the volume of the intake also.
I agree, the RPM would be nice but i doubt you will have room. The Performer is designed just for applications like yours. On my challenger, it had a M1 with 600 cfm Edlebrock carb and a 3.5 drop base ac and(the wing nut) actually touched one of the hood braces! The M1 is about the same hieght as the RPM, IIRC.
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2007, 05:39 PM
tdaver tdaver is offline
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Default CAM info

Hi folks,

The CAM is a COMP CAMS model XE274H-10

Lift is 0.488" intake and 0.491" exhaust

Duration at 0.05" is 230* intake and 236* exhaust.

So it seems that some are suggesting that the Edelbrock Performer (non-RPM) is good enough for me. Others are suggesting a step up to a Holley Street Avenger, Weiand Action Plus or Edelbrock Performer RPM.

I want to get the best flow and performance for my setup and don't want to buy an intake that will be wrong for my application and make things worse. I am not sure which way to go. I am relatively new to this and am learning as I go.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:27 AM
tdaver tdaver is offline
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Default manifold height

Hi folks,

OK, I looked at the manufacturers' sites for these manifolds to get dimensions. In particular, the Edelbrock site says to lay a straight edge across the carb flange and measure the distance to the front and read sealing surfaces. As we all know, the front and rear of the Chrysler manifolds don't make a seal. So I measured the distance from the straight edge to the place on the block where the valley pan hold downs are attached. I figured this is what they mean. I also measured my hood clearance on my current setup.

Unless I am doing something wrong, the only manifolds that will work for me are the Weiand Action Plus or Edelbrock Performer. I will make a decision between these two. Honestly, I never thought about their being such a difference in manifold height for the different dual plane models out there. Thanks very much for the advice.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2007, 05:38 PM
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I agree with Wilks. The Weaind 8009 would be a great intake and yes, stay with a dual plane cause that car of yours is on hte heavy side. 42 to 4600 lbs. depending on options.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2007, 06:49 PM
valiant64 valiant64 is offline
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If you're not gonna use the performer rpm or Holley street dominator, I would just find a late 60's-early 70's stock 440 4bbl intake. These are actually very good intakes, and the Weiand action + or Edelbrock performer dont make much if any more power than the stock piece. The only real advantage would be that these intakes are lighter than the stock intake. Save your money.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2007, 06:56 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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I have the Weiand on my 440. It is better than the stocker.

A single plane will give you a more even/consistent A/F ratio to all runners. Dual planes tend to be lean on some runners and rich on others. I ran a Torker on a 383 and it performed very well on the street.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:40 AM
tdaver tdaver is offline
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Default big improvement

Hi folks,

Well, I ended up going with the Weiand 8009 Action+Plus manifold. I got it on eBay for $111 plus $20 shipping and it is like new. I had to use a 1/2", 4-hole spacer to fit the throttle linkage and my fuel line. It really did make a noticable difference. Though I haven't been to the track (closed for the winter....) it is clear from the seat of my pants that the car climbs up to the red line from mid-RPMs MUCH quicker and seems to even have a little more at low RPM too.

Just to re-cap, I went from a Carter 600 CFM AFB carb to a 770 CFM Holley Street Avenger with K&N filter using my stock 1966 iron intake. I didn't notice a lot of improvement. However, the carburetor holes on the intake were sized for the smaller carb so it is no surprise that I didn't see a lot of change. I think having the new intake with this carb really allowed it to breathe. I have read some posts where some said the 600 CFM was a good carb for this car and some who said the stock intake was good enough too. For my car, there is no doubt the improvement was significant. The car really came alive with these changes. Thanks once again to those who have helped me with this. My next point of attack is the rockers. I will post a new thread.

Cheers!
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2007, 10:52 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I think you made a very good choice and in doing some research, learned what is really needed in making a informed choice.

Cams have a operating RPM range listed from min. to max. with some grinders/sellers listing redline. Intakes are very much the same. You can get a decent idea of what intakes are good for any cam based on these ratings.

The following is known advice for many years, dual plane for the street, small single plane for the track and some street, big single planes and T-rams are track only.

Heavier cars will behave crummy with to much carb, intake, cam, exhaust pipe size. Better to error in caution than not.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdaver View Post
Hi folks,

Well, I ended up going with the Weiand 8009 Action+Plus manifold. I got it on eBay for $111 plus $20 shipping and it is like new. I had to use a 1/2", 4-hole spacer to fit the throttle linkage and my fuel line. It really did make a noticable difference. Though I haven't been to the track (closed for the winter....) it is clear from the seat of my pants that the car climbs up to the red line from mid-RPMs MUCH quicker and seems to even have a little more at low RPM too.

Just to re-cap, I went from a Carter 600 CFM AFB carb to a 770 CFM Holley Street Avenger with K&N filter using my stock 1966 iron intake. I didn't notice a lot of improvement. However, the carburetor holes on the intake were sized for the smaller carb so it is no surprise that I didn't see a lot of change. I think having the new intake with this carb really allowed it to breathe. I have read some posts where some said the 600 CFM was a good carb for this car and some who said the stock intake was good enough too. For my car, there is no doubt the improvement was significant. The car really came alive with these changes. Thanks once again to those who have helped me with this. My next point of attack is the rockers. I will post a new thread.

Cheers!
Glad to see you made some inprovments. The 600 us way undercarbe3d for a big block and your still under carbed with the 770, but your much closer to what you need. Keep in mind the stock 4bbl carb for your car is an 850 cfm Thermoquad and it can use every bit of that. And if you have more mods in the future in mind you'll have to step up to that carb and a better intake.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:51 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblefish360 View Post

The following is known advice for many years, dual plane for the street, small single plane for the track and some street, big single planes and T-rams are track only.

Many people run TR's on the street. Some are actually called street tunnel rams! Twin 390's on a big block would run nice. Or 450's. DJV Cuda runs a 360 with twin 390's.

273's came factory with single plane intakes with 2bbls, maybe 4bbls. Also 318's IIRC

You can get decent mileage out of a TR. And you can run a single or 2 4bbl top.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:22 AM
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true, but theres allways a give and take factor.
Would you run a T-ram with a cam @ .050 with 214, 228 duration and 3.23 gears?
No, you would not. It's just a bad combo.
Streetable is a looooose term and it is different from one to the next. Speaking in general terms, idle to 5500 with all the manor of a pure stock OE as delivered ride but hopped up with performance parts makes a pure street ride to me.
Now if your the kind of guy that can live with a 5500 stall with 4.56 gears and a T-ram etc.... God bless you and your wallet. (Even before the rise in gas)

Oh, and those 273/318 single plane intakes...2 or 4 bbl units.....have you really looked at them? There not exactly what I would call a big power maker in a rpm range of 1500 - 6500. There low, flat with a heated passage for the carb.
If they were actuall any good, they'd be sought after. Not melted down for fishing weights. (<G>)
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  #21  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:04 PM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblefish360 View Post
I think you made a very good choice and in doing some research, learned what is really needed in making a informed choice.

Cams have a operating RPM range listed from min. to max. with some grinders/sellers listing redline. Intakes are very much the same. You can get a decent idea of what intakes are good for any cam based on these ratings.

The following is known advice for many years, dual plane for the street, small single plane for the track and some street, big single planes and T-rams are track only.

Heavier cars will behave crummy with to much carb, intake, cam, exhaust pipe size. Better to error in caution than not.
I Agree..... ......l.Now we need some pics...
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:08 PM
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i have 2 examples... just to make this thread a little intersting...

my setup
66 cuda
stock 360 - small valve heads
mopar 474 lift cam
2 holley 390's on a eddy street ram.
dyamic 3800 9.5" converter
shorty headers ( spitfires)
3.23 gears
16 mpg highway
12.56 et @ 106 and a 1.74 60' time with slicks...
car weighs 3430 with me in it - street car.
______________________________

setup number 2
1967 chrysler town and counrty wagon
CAR WEIGHS 5150 with driver!!!
400 w/ comp 501 / 292 cam
weinad t-ram with 2- holley 390's
headman headers
tci 2900 converter
4.30's
street tires..

runs 14.02 @ 100 mph w/ 2.0 60' times


tell me either one of these cars is a text book build?
NOPE!
do they run?

hell yeah they do... 14 flat for a 5100 pound barge is kookin!
and 12.56 for a 3.23 geared street car is not what you would predict if I asked you what it ran...

the small plenum on my street ram helps with the small carbs... they are box stock except for a balance tube connecting the secondaries...

I'd post pix but my count is not up .... sorry..


who says t-rams and 3.23's dont mix?
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:13 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
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A wagon???? GEEEEEZZ!!!!

I have a friend who is slowly building a ramp truck with a single Thermoquad, Eddie TR, 516 heads, Ultrabell adapter to run an overdrive. 73 4 door Dodge. Don't know the cam. He is however running Max Wedge exhaust manifolds!
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:11 AM
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DJV, I'm impressed with the combo doing what it did and getting what it gets. MPG's and a good slip! Nice job. I also love the fact it's a small valve head. Something I preach here a bit and often find resistance to there worth and use.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:06 AM
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i've never tried the set of x heads I have sitting on the bench.

I actually believe they might slow me down some. I'm a firm believer in those little valves giving me the needed velocity down low!
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