Best Fuel?

[Shatto]

There it is, on page 11........of our Gummint Mileage Ratings Brochure

Dodge Ram 1500

Using E-85 fuel..... 9/13 MPG
Using real gas......14/19 MPG

[ehostler]

and your point is?

In an engine that is properly designed to run E-85, you will get better fuel economy from the E-85; however, you won't be able to run real gas, as it will have lots of pre-ignition.

[dodger1]

Couldn't tell you the exact math, but alcohol (i.e E-85) contains less energy (btu's?) per gallon than gasoline, so you need to burn more fuel to move the same weight the same distance in the same time. Alcohol will tolerate much higher compression than gasoline, however, and that will get you some power increase,(as Ed states) and may make for a blower-friendly engine; although you still can't get around the lower energy content. If you can save the equivalent $$ per gallon then it's a fair trade. In my opinion E-85 is mainly a political football.

[Rug_Trucker]

I was in Nebraska last year. Premium E-85 was the same as regualr gas. Ran 3 tanks in the wife's '02 PT Cruiser. We got the best mileage of the trip 37.6 @ 75mph with a 5 speed.

[dust]

Originally Posted by Shatto

There it is, on page 11........of our Gummint Mileage Ratings Brochure

Dodge Ram 1500

Using E-85 fuel..... 9/13 MPG
Using real gas......14/19 MPG

What's the cost per mile?

[peg leg]

The energy required to make ethanol far exceeds the energy required to make petroleum fuels. So how are we becoming more energy efficient?
The mid range solution to our energy needs is to develope the infrastructure to provide true long term solutions, not knee jerk reactional small scale politically correct (Whew) populist short term fixes.
The answer is leadership in the private sector, where investment in energy can and always has grown our economy.
The answer is a field of crude in ANWR that could make a giant dent in our importing of crude.
When we remove the government from energy control, we get results. When we only consider our personal involvement in energy needs and costs, we tend to overlook the real solutions.
Consider that the new ULSD for our diesel trucks costs us about two miles per gallon in effiency. Consider that E85 in a gas engine costs miles per gallon. How is this a solution, when we burn more fuel?
The main power battery for a Prius has a life of 100,000 miles. The cost to replace it is 7-9 thousand dollars. All for "feel good" political correctness.
Geez!

[dodger1]

And we haven't even touched upon the greenhouse gas effects of these fuel choices. Sure, alcohol made from biomass is only releasing the CO that these plants have already stored. But as pegleg states, how much energy did we use to manufacture the ethanol? how much CO did that release? We have huge reserves of oil trapped in the tar sands of northern Alberta. But you can't pump it out like Texas crude - you need to burn huge amounts of natural gas to generate steam to extract the oil from the mined tar sands. How energy efficient is that?? blah blah and blah. (pegleg, I think maybe us o.f's oughta quit preaching now )

[moparman92]

Its's 30 percent less roughly so if you want the same power gotta throw a power adder to it Ie Super charger or turbo.

[peg leg]

"Crude oil is a diminishing resource". Fact: ANWR and the new deep ocean field off Chile (I think, Chile), hold trillions of barrels of crude. The coast of Kalifornia and the Gulf states holds billions more, un tapped at this time. Will crude ever disappear? Yes, but not before we develope alternatives that make sense, both environmentaly and economically. We tend to forget that oils are used in a whole lot more than just fuels. Certain products in common use are not capable of being made without oils, at this time in technology.

One of my favorite people in all the world, uses a profundity which I find completely sobering. "Science drives concensus, concensus cannot drive science". That would be Rush Limbaugh.

[ehostler]

Now lets take off the rose tinted glasses and face reality.

Need/demand drives technology. The auto makers really aren't trying to use other resources. If they were, we would have them already. They won't do the real research until it is economically feasible for them to do so. As long as there is gasoline and a desire for gasoline powered vehicles, it is not economically feasible for them to do the R&D work on other fuel sources.

Even at todays cost of crude, it is still not feasible to tap any deep ocean field. If it were economically feasible, they would be tapped already.

As crude oil is a finite resource, that is being used, it is a diminishing resource. I don't care how much potential is left out there. The fact is, if you are using any of it, the resource is being depleted.

Petroleum based fuels are also bad for the environment. Why do you think there has not been a new refinery (in this country) in so long? It's because they are environmental nightmares and no one wants one in their backyard.

All of the different levels of pollution are the primary reason behind finding alternative clean fuels.

Yeah, I know, your an old geezer and you will be dead before too long, so why do you care about the environment. Myself, I look at the legacy that we are leaving for our children and their children for many generations to come.

Look at the current water conditions in this country alone. There is a lot of fresh water resources that cannot be used. Why? Because we have polluted the ground tables. The water in those ares is no longer fit for consumption, because of the crap that we have been pouring back into the ground.

[dodger1]

Ed, well said. Although this thread is turning into a soapbox, I'd like to refute your quote
"Yeah, I know, your an old geezer and you will be dead before too long, so why do you care about the environment. Myself, I look at the legacy that we are leaving for our children and their children for many generations to come." I'm old enough to see what we've done to our environment over the last 60 years, and I also see that we have to change our outlook. So don't lump all us old geezers together in that respect. Pegleg's quote "Science drives concensus, concensus cannot drive science". is also right on. Our children deserve no less.

[aarracer]

Ya ok

But what about ethanol use driving up the cost and driving down the availability of Tequila!

AARRACER

[my69beeper]

Originally Posted by aarracer

Ya ok

But what about ethanol use driving up the cost and driving down the availability of Tequila!

AARRACER

I can drink to that!
Has anyone else noticed that the Premium fuel (sold at a premium $ here in the heart of Oil Country) does alright in the "fuel efficient" rice-rides and F.I. Mopars, but doesn't seem to burn the same in the vintage rides?? Maybe it's having to use the Octane-boosting additives in addition to the Premium to get the sweet smell of performance.
In my humble experience, Ethanol use has led to more than one fuel system seal/gasket replacement. Personally, wouldn't touch the stuff!

[dodger1]

"But what about ethanol use driving up the cost and driving down the availability of Tequila" Now we're talking serious priorities!!

[ehostler]

I don't think that ethanol will drive up the cost or drive down the availability of tequila. Fuel ethanol is made from corn. Tequila is made from blue agave (maguey).

[aarracer]

ehostler

no more clearcuts

[aarracer]

Originally Posted by ehostler

I don't think that ethanol will drive up the cost or drive down the availability of tequila. Fuel ethanol is made from corn. Tequila is made from blue agave (maguey).

hostler

oh yes it will

The need for corn is causing a clear cut of the agave feilds to plant that shit to make ethanol!

AARRACER

[it's all dodge]

I do now that my wifes new Patriot 2.4 cvt 4x4 got way better mileage this last tank using 91 octane than 87 oct, same kinda driving, alot in town, than out of town is usually 65 to 70 mph, up and down steep hills. and thats almost 3 mpg better, and it's still breaking in the engine, about 1,000 miles. Only reason I put in the 91 was the Wally World/Murphy Usa was out of 87, so they were selling the 91 for 87 price

[dodger1]

Well, that may be a result of the loosening-up from the break-in as well, mightn't it? I have never seen fuel economy change as a result of using a higher octane gasoline, but that's only one old geezer's opinion.

[dodger1]

"I don't think that ethanol will drive up the cost or drive down the availability of tequila. Fuel ethanol is made from corn. Tequila is made from blue agave (maguey)"

Not tequila, but corn whiskey. Bourbon is sure to go up!!!