anyone no anything about stroker kits from 440 source

[Gibble_75]

they come for a pretty cheap price but has anybody personally used one or know if they are a high quality kit

[Ray Bell]

Where's Wellington?

I've not had any experience at all, but I would recommending comparing the name brands that Marshall at Campbell Enterprises can link together for you.

[go-fish]

I don't know if it means anything to you but this is just a case of a fella that hooked up with a Communist copy shop. Rip offs of good parts made into cheap knock offs. I shop for bargains on alot of stuff but internal engine parts aren't one of them.

[Gibble_75]

Wellington is in sumner county Kansas
i found the ad in a mopar muscle magazine

[ehostler]

We have several members that have used their kits with no problems.

[dave571]

They have been on the market with 1000's of them in use so far..

Brandon is a stand up guy who stands behind the stuff he sells. His customer service is better than a lot of companies that sell north american made stuff.

They make no secret of thier stuff being from China.(while some other manufacturers do make it a secret)

From what has been said on some other boards, I have no doubt that htier is nothing in the price range that can touch them for service and quality.

[go-fish]

I guess it's not even worth getting into a pissing match over. If you don't already feel the need to support decent free trade workers and not support a country that is cheating at the trade game and sending over harmful toys, tires, fish, etc. etc., I guess you don't feel the same as I do and that is fine.
I'm not a China-phobe, I just think their trade tactics and secretiveness is suspect to the Nth degree.
Back to car parts!

[bobr]

Originally Posted by go-fish

I guess it's not even worth getting into a pissing match over. If you don't already feel the need to support decent free trade workers and not support a country that is cheating at the trade game and sending over harmful toys, tires, fish, etc. etc., I guess you don't feel the same as I do and that is fine.
I'm not a China-phobe, I just think their trade tactics and secretiveness is suspect to the Nth degree.
Back to car parts!

What kind of TV do you have? Toaster? Microwave? While I am in some limited agreement with the gyst of your message I don't think it's answering the poster's question. 440Source nicely fills the niche between high end big money parts and factory stock. Generally speaking in my opinion if you are going to use a stock block it will break before a 440Source rotating assembly that has been properly inspected and assembled. If you are spending the bucks on an aftermarket block then take the rotating assembly to the next level as well. I have personally used, without problems, 2 of Brandon's 4.15 stroke kits. -Bob

[dave571]

I don't have a problem with either side of the trade debate.



I didn't think the thread topic was "what do we think of China's trade policies?" SO I answered based on feedback I have seen on this vendor/product on several boards. Based on the product and the service Brandon has been giving.

I have no problem with anyone not wanting to buy chineses stuff, and for that matter, neither does Brandon. That's why he makes no secret of where the stuff is from.

[go-fish]

Originally Posted by go-fish

I guess it's not even worth getting into a pissing match over.

I guess you don't feel the same as I do and that is fine.

Back to car parts!

Opinions are like bellybuttons. I have mine and you have yours. Let's get back to helping the OP.

[hotrod7043]

For the Difference in Price and Shipping go With a Muscle Motors Kit.

[OHD]

With any part the amount of additional machine work needed is of considerable importance.

440source kits need the journals on the cranks checked/turned, the ends of the rods checked/reamed, the assembly balanced

Eagle kits from the others need the same ( I would not put "Eagle " parts of any kind in anything I epected to be presicion and high performance.)

PREMIUM KITS NEED LITTLE OR NONE

Once you add all those costs into the price, when completed, one can make an informed, intelligent, decision.

As the price grows close and closer together as the machine bills add up and the suprise will be when it costs MORE for the "China" stuff" because of all their deficiencies needing correction. Then you basically have a 10/10 crank, and rebuilt rods.

DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT, OR DO IT OVER...

[Ray Bell]

That's pretty interesting, OHD... and highly salient...

What stuff from Eagle, for instance, needs 'finishing' by the engine assembler?

[bobr]

Originally Posted by OHD

With any part the amount of additional machine work needed is of considerable importance.

440source kits need the journals on the cranks checked/turned, the ends of the rods checked/reamed, the assembly balanced

Eagle kits from the others need the same ( I would not put "Eagle " parts of any kind in anything I epected to be presicion and high performance.)

PREMIUM KITS NEED LITTLE OR NONE

Once you add all those costs into the price, when completed, one can make an informed, intelligent, decision.

As the price grows close and closer together as the machine bills add up and the suprise will be when it costs MORE for the "China" stuff" because of all their deficiencies needing correction. Then you basically have a 10/10 crank, and rebuilt rods.

DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT, OR DO IT OVER...

My last 440Source kit needed exactly 200 bucks worth of checking/correcting by Best Machine. There was actually very little correcting done. Some of their earlier out-of-spec issues have been dealt with by 440Source. The only crank that I know of that is reasonably priced(slightly more$) and may be better is the Callies Dragonslayer. All of the others are either a lot more money or are inferior. I am speaking from experience not from hearsay. -Bob

[ehostler]

Was that before or after they started doing in house machining and balancing on their kits?

[OHD]

What stuff from Eagle, for instance, needs 'finishing' by the engine assembler

crank: rod journals crank journals, stroke index, balance
rods: big end size and width, small end size, overall length

BobR, you buy something "BRAND NEW" and it needs $200 of machine work????? You think that is good? I DO NOT.....

Order measure install, NOT order measure pay to repair install.

Where else did the manufacturer cut corners, that you do not have the equiptment to test and determine?


Cheap and useable (after repairs) go together and last for a time, but cheap and precision NEVER SEEM TO BE MENTIONED IN SAME SENTENCE OR EVEN PARAGRAPH. Ever wonder why?

[ehostler]

If I buy a kit from Summit or Jeg's, it will need to be sent to the machine shop for final finishing.

Up until recently, 440source did not have an internal machine shop and they sold a complete kit for $1,299 that needed final machining and balancing. Now they offer those services in house. I pretty sure that if you buy their slightly more expensive kit, it is a bolt and go setup.

Right now, your complaints about the company are based on hearsay. If they had that bad of a product, do you think they would still be in business? If they had that bad of a product, would they be rowing their facility and product line?

[Dave 572]

Fact check me, but I think the Dragon slayer line is only available as a SB stroker crank.Callies is the cheapest US made crank that I know of running about $1800-2000 for a BB stroker.Problem is,they only build the Mopar cranks once,maybe twice a year.If your particular crank isn't in somebody's inventory then you have to order it and wait for the next production run.
How much time ya got?

[djswwg]

OK then OHD, so just exactly who's products do you recommend?...djs

[dave571]

Originally Posted by Dave 572

Fact check me, but I think the Dragon slayer line is only available as a SB stroker crank.Callies is the cheapest US made crank that I know of running about $1800-2000 for a BB stroker.Problem is,they only build the Mopar cranks once,maybe twice a year.If your particular crank isn't in somebody's inventory then you have to order it and wait for the next production run.
How much time ya got?

Even if you factor in an extra 200 bucks of checking and fitting , the 440 source kit is cheaper, and is a complete assembly pistons, rods etc. making it many times cheaper.

For about the same money 440source sells the cranks alone for, I suppose someone could buy a used topfuel racing crank, that is just about cracked right trough in a acouple of places.

So back to the "BobR, you buy something "BRAND NEW" and it needs $200 of machine work????? You think that is good?"

Relatively speaking, I'd have to say yes.

Is there better products out there? Absolutely.
Is there value with this product? Absolutely.

[1973Swinger]

I do not yet have first hand experience with 440source stuff, but will before too long. I am getting things together to use a 383 and the 440source stoker kit to take it out to 496ci. I have heard nothing but good stuff about their products while I have been recently researching parts, etc for my build. IMO if you are buying high performance internals and expecting everything to work together and bolt right in without minor tweaking, then you are not building it the right way. If you go buy an expensive crank, rods and pistons, do you not have to have everything fit and balanced to your block's spec anyway? These engines should never be built like an assembly line piece. Look at the issues when you buy a crate engine, you have to tear them down and go through everything anyway, so what good are they? Not much to someone that wants everything right. If you are building something in the 800 to 1000hp range, then you should be buying nothing but the best stuff out there, but for a 500 to 700hp street/strip engine, the 440source stuff works very well from what I hear. I will be shooting for the 600hp mark with mine.

[OHD]

Originally Posted by djswwg

OK then OHD, so just exactly who's products do you recommend?...djs

The absolute best race and track proven parts from the best manufacturers in existence after they are tested and proven to be reliable. Each and every component is normaly from a different manufacturer.

Velasco, Winburg, Manley, CP, Wiseco, GRP, LSM, Crower, Manton, KB, StageV, Norris, DLI, Dechilles, Jessel, ISKY toolroom, T&D, ARP, SPS, Goodyear, Dayco, Aeroquip, Enderle, Hogan, Hampton, PSI, Littlefield, ... need anymore?

Paying and machine them to fit together and coexist is one thing, buying a "kit" for 1299 and paying 200 bucks or what ever, you still have a suspect low level product..

You get what you pay for, "where" and who you pay is just redistributed.........

If I can not make it, I have, and always will, wait for the correct part from a quality manufacturer rather than compromising. Stuff lasts a whole lot longer this way.

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by OHD

The absolute best race and track proven parts from the best manufacturers in existence after they are tested and proven to be reliable. Each and every component is normaly from a different manufacturer.

Velasco, Winburg, Manley, CP, Wiseco, GRP, LSM, Crower, Manton, KB, StageV, Norris, DLI, Dechilles, Jessel, ISKY toolroom, T&D, ARP, SPS, Goodyear, Dayco, Aeroquip, Enderle, Hogan, Hampton, PSI, Littlefield, ... need anymore?

Paying and machine them to fit together and coexist is one thing, buying a "kit" for 1299 and paying 200 bucks or what ever, you still have a suspect low level product..

You get what you pay for, "where" and who you pay is just redistributed.........

If I can not make it, I have, and always will, wait for the correct part from a quality manufacturer rather than compromising. Stuff lasts a whole lot longer this way.

Ripley,is that you??? Old Hemi Dude?

Careful with this guy he has an agenda...

He was run off of Moparts

[Dave 572]

I am getting things together to use a 383 and the 440source stoker kit to take it out to 496ci.

Be careful with this particular combo as there was/is some fitment problems.At first it was the counterweights needing to be turned down.Brandon has corrected that now.

There also was/is an issue of skirt/rod interference and the skirt coming out of the bottom of the bores with a short rod combination.If you go with the longer rods,you'll end up with a short CH piston that needs a support rail.NOT a good thing on a street engine for longevity.Bigger isn't always better and there's more to consider than just cubes.I highly suggest you compare a 3.910"/4.150" crank for your combo using the link below.

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

Up until recently, 440source did not have an internal machine shop and they sold a complete kit for $1,299 that needed final machining and balancing. Now they offer those services in house.

True.

Right now, your complaints about the company are based on hearsay. If they had that bad of a product, do you think they would still be in business? If they had that bad of a product, would they be growing their facility and product line?

I bought one of the first run of 4.250" Chevy pin cranks from Brandon and had a pro shop check it out.I still have this crank in the box.3 main journals are tapered .0005",.0005",and .001".2 of the rod journals are .0005" out of round-not acceptable for a race engine.Perhaps a stock type rebuild as those numbers fall within tolerance.If I ever use this crank,I'll have to take it -.010" under right off the bat.

If I had to buy another like it today I would go with a K1.The choice wasn't there at that time.

Brandon did offer to replace it, but he didn't offer to pay the $50 return shipping.By the time I paid for the shipping,and had the next one pro-checked I would have had another $120 invested.There also would be no guarantee that the next one would be any better.So,I decided it would get re-ground before use.

[ehostler]

So, you admit that you got a first run product. Based off your experience of first run, you will speak bad of the entire product line.

Heck, if I thought that way, I would never buy/install another Edelbrock product for my car. Their B/RB heads were hit or miss, until the second run. Their AVS carbs also leaked. All problems were resolved by second run.

If I were to use first run as a barometer for any company, I would never buy another product.

As far as the bad crank, I would have had the credit card company reverse charges, if he was unwilling to cover the return shipping, on an inferior product.

[OHD]

Ripley,is that you??? Old Hemi Dude?

Careful with this guy he has an agenda...

He was run off of Moparts

Yup thats me and my agenda is to warn people NOT to get steered to site advertisers that are small time operators looking to sell parts to members, rather to buy from established well financed vendors with the resources to back their product lines. (like replace if defective at any cost to customers)


I got the Moarts sweethearts fired up when I called out DRAM on his hole in the wall shop and challanged him to list the speed boats he had provided power for....He could not remember any hahaha then the gang decided I was too rough on their little engine builder....poor babies...

BTW there big guy, want to list the componments of that 572 in your signature title and I will list the components of one I have on a stand RIGHT NOW.. Let these boys read and compare....?

Bash away big guy, I can take it and will let my engines speak for themselves...WILL YOU?

[ehostler]

OK, I am now being forced to put my mod hat on.

Bashing will NOT be tolerated. If it goes beyond this, I will delete the offensive posts and bring it to the attention of the site admin. If it continues beyond that, the thread will be locked. If the bashing carries into other threads/forums, I will again bring it to the attention of the site admin.

Andy is nice and will follow up on my warning. If the behavior continues beyond that, you will be banned for 30 days. If you go back to the bashing, you will be banned from the board.

MOD

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by ehostler

So, you admit that you got a first run product. Based off your experience of first run, you will speak bad of the entire product line.

That's why I felt it was important to mention it.

No,I'm not speaking of the entire product line.If you look a couple posts back,I had nothing but good things to say about Brandon and still do.It was my decision not to send the crank back because of the cost.And,I bought a second crank from him about 18 months apart that had no reported issues.

As far as the bad crank, I would have had the credit card company reverse charges, if he was unwilling to cover the return shipping, on an inferior product

I really didn't think that was necessary.I have a friend at Winberg that could take care of it.

[ehostler]

My apologies. I mis-understood/mis-read your point.

[dodger1]

Just read the article on Dave Dudek's 69 Hemi R/R F.A.S.T. racer(Mopar Action Feb. 08) Says there he used a 4.25 crank from 440source. That's a big buck engine, and I would think the crank had to meet some serious standards judging by the rest of the build.