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  #1  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:00 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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Default Water Pump Clearance Problem

I just bought a Flexolite Alum. rad with the 180 electric puller fan and shroud . Fit's in the car Great !!! Only Problem is I can't put the water pump on now. The fan sticks out about 3/4" too far. I don't think a pusher fan would do the job on its own . I Really liked the Idea of freeing up some Horse Power . Any thoughts or am I going to have to go back to a conventional metal fan .
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:12 PM
peg leg peg leg is offline
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calling Flexolite and explain the issues. Bet they can replace the fan and motor with one that will clear. Also, I'd get some dimensions for them to work with, like the distance from the pump shaft face to the radiator.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:26 PM
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offset the fan to clear the waterpump.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2007, 04:26 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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If the car in question is the '62 and it has the original K-member, you have discovered one of the drawbacks to the erarly B; the engine sits over 1 1/2" further forward than the '66 and later B bodies.

I doubt you'll be able to use the combo you have. That's one reason I like to replace the K-member in my early B's.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2007, 04:29 PM
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I offset my electric fan to the drivers side a tad to clear the water pump on my Duster and small block set up.
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File Type: jpg 100_1314.JPG (87.3 KB, 23 views)
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2007, 04:54 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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I guess I will have to take the fan back. It has a shroud on it that can't move. I have a couple 5 blade Mopar asymmetrical fans. One is a Very light fan with a Clutch. There is a couple different clutch fans I believe, But I don't know anything about them . Which is better and how can you tell if they are Working Properly ???
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File Type: jpg Flexolite Rad + 180 Xtreme Fan.JPG (71.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Mopar Clutch Fan.JPG (53.1 KB, 19 views)
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2007, 09:54 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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That bottom shot looks like a viscous fan from MoPar. That is a good unit.
There fine for use if there not leaking.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2007, 11:11 AM
peg leg peg leg is offline
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Since you are going with a pump mounted fan, get a shroud from Mancini if you don't already have one. Ditto Fish, that Mopar unit is a good one. Keep the fan half way into the shroud by using spacers on the assembly.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2007, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_440 Savoy View Post
I guess I will have to take the fan back. It has a shroud on it that can't move. I have a couple 5 blade Mopar asymmetrical fans. One is a Very light fan with a Clutch. There is a couple different clutch fans I believe, But I don't know anything about them . Which is better and how can you tell if they are Working Properly ???
If you want a good electric fan get one from Spall. They are much thinner than the set up you have and draw less amperage.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2007, 06:37 PM
4HUNTIN 4HUNTIN is offline
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Sorry if I am stupid, but my pusher fan is on the front of the radiator and
my water pump fan is pulling from the engine side of the radiator.
It seems to work.
Thanks Steve.
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2007, 01:26 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4HUNTIN View Post
Sorry if I am stupid, but my pusher fan is on the front of the radiator and
my water pump fan is pulling from the engine side of the radiator.
It seems to work.
Thanks Steve.
Steve , I believe you are absolutely right . The thing is I believe that a pusher fan is more of a secondary fan to help the water pump fan . I was wanting a high volume electric fan to do it all and free up some horse power. The Flexolite 180 xtreme fan could pull 3300 CFM at All speeds . But for me that will Not be Happening How can you tell if a viscous fan works properly ??? and What is the difference between a clutch fan and a viscous fan if any ???
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2007, 11:19 AM
kick_the_reverb kick_the_reverb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_440 Savoy View Post
What is the difference between a clutch fan and a viscous fan if any ???
No difference.
For electric fans - you have two main options:
1. Aftermarket - use the appropriate SPAL for your application. Don't bother with anything else.
2. OEM - a few options depending on the space you have. Taurus 3.8 fan, HHR fan, Maxima fans, etc. Go to Moparts and do a search on there. There are many threads concerning this issue.

Basically, either pay a lot of money for a SPAL setup, or do some research and find what junkyard fan can work for you. There are some fans you can get at the junkyard that will be way more powerful and reliable than the cheap aftermarket fans (and their bogus CFM ratings, like Zirgo, for example).
Be aware that you need to have the capacity in the electrical systems to handle these fans - a powerful fan consumes quite a bit of energy, and there's a spike on start-up that needs to be addressed with proper hookup (dual relays, good connectors, heavy gauge wires, etc).

Good luck,
Ran
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:52 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Don't be surprised if the clutch fan won't fit either. The early B's used the shortest fluid drive and the later B's are usually too long.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHD View Post
offset the fan to clear the waterpump.
What are you going to do with the shroud, offset that too?. if that is the setup in the pic, can you remount the radiator more forward, major surgery, but a thought. another option, get another fan/shroud that has 2 smaller fans, the water pump snout may snuggle right between them, and you can even pop a hole for it to poke through. the one I had in mind had 2 smaller fans but like this one

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  #15  
Old 12-05-2007, 01:56 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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John's right again. The clutch fan won't fit. I have less than 3 " between the water pump snout and the rad. I was looking at Flexolite Scirocco Part # 365 Fan 1600 CFM 2 1/2" thick . Still Only gives me Less than 1/2" I looked at Spal Fans and I think they are two thick too. How much CFM air is needed for a BB with a Alum Rad ??? What about Flexolite bolt on fiberglass fan blades ???
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  #16  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:28 AM
Dave 572 Dave 572 is offline
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Can you have your aluminum modified to get the core closer to the core support?

I warned you a while back you'd have this problem.Are you willing to get a radiator built? If so, have a high eff 3 core built and have the saddles soldered on so that the core contacts the core support when installed.The easiest way to do this is tell the shop to put the core against a wall as a reference,then solder the saddles.Also have nuts brazed behind the slots where a shroud would bolt up should you need to add one later.This process was $500 for me locally.

Next go to Napa online and look up PN 261306.This should correspond to a 4 Seasons/Hayden(pn 2765) thermal fan clutch.The description/picture has all the specs.This is the infamous Jaguar fan clutch and is the shortest unit available at 2 3/4",besides an OE race Hemi unit.If you do this,and use a 7 blade steel fan you shouldn't have a cooling problem.You'll also end up with 1" between the radiator and the fan clutch.
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2007, 06:07 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 572 View Post
Can you have your aluminum modified to get the core closer to the core support?

I warned you a while back you'd have this problem.Are you willing to get a radiator built? If so, have a high eff 3 core built and have the saddles soldered on so that the core contacts the core support when installed.The easiest way to do this is tell the shop to put the core against a wall as a reference,then solder the saddles.Also have nuts brazed behind the slots where a shroud would bolt up should you need to add one later.This process was $500 for me locally.

Next go to Napa online and look up PN 261306.This should correspond to a 4 Seasons/Hayden(pn 2765) thermal fan clutch.The description/picture has all the specs.This is the infamous Jaguar fan clutch and is the shortest unit available at 2 3/4",besides an OE race Hemi unit.If you do this,and use a 7 blade steel fan you shouldn't have a cooling problem.You'll also end up with 1" between the radiator and the fan clutch.
Dave , You say this Jaguar fan clutch is 2 3/4" That would only give me 3/8" to spare . I don't know but that seems Risky . I Would Hate to Eat a New Alum Rad . I have a Mopar 5 blade flex fan that would give me 3" clearance . I don't know what would be stock . I would guess a 7 blade fan would move more air than a 5 blade . But, would a 5 blade do the job
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2007, 03:51 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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How much clearance do you need between the rad and fan ???
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2007, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4HUNTIN View Post
Sorry if I am stupid, but my pusher fan is on the front of the radiator and
my water pump fan is pulling from the engine side of the radiator.
It seems to work.
Thanks Steve.
Problem with that set up, on most cars it blocks the opening and restricts air flow more than it helps. Pushers on the grill side of the rad are 9 out 10 the wrong way to go. Some get lucky though and with the power robbing stock fan you have on the engine side it may be enough to overcome any air restrictions caused by the pusher.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_440 Savoy View Post
John's right again. The clutch fan won't fit. I have less than 3 " between the water pump snout and the rad. I was looking at Flexolite Scirocco Part # 365 Fan 1600 CFM 2 1/2" thick . Still Only gives me Less than 1/2" I looked at Spal Fans and I think they are two thick too. How much CFM air is needed for a BB with a Alum Rad ??? What about Flexolite bolt on fiberglass fan blades ???
Use that one right there. I had the measurements for it at one time and it's the thinest fan they have. It should work for you. That's a typo on there web page too. It's not a 5.5" fan it's a 15.5" It's the one they use on all the NASCAR rides so it should work for you as far as the CFM rating goes.

SPL3010 15.5" Puller - 12 amps - 2450 CFM. Weighs 5 lbs. $190.00

http://stockcarproducts.com/fan1.htm
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:37 PM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
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Try to take a look at a fan from a Ford Crown Victoria police or taxi car.... Get ride of the shroud all together....That or put a Muinzier electric water pump in the housing.....Just my 2 cents.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2007, 06:07 PM
4HUNTIN 4HUNTIN is offline
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I have a plastic fan on the engine side on a 1 inch spacer.
Also have a aftermarket tranny cooler blocking air flow but it works.
It stays put and the motor stays under 200 degrees with a 180
thermostat.
The plastic fan has seen 7000 rpm.
The car goes 10.90 at 119.58 mph.
Thanks Steve.
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2007, 03:19 AM
Jack_440 Savoy Jack_440 Savoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwc43 View Post
Use that one right there. I had the measurements for it at one time and it's the thinest fan they have. It should work for you. That's a typo on there web page too. It's not a 5.5" fan it's a 15.5" It's the one they use on all the NASCAR rides so it should work for you as far as the CFM rating goes.

SPL3010 15.5" Puller - 12 amps - 2450 CFM. Weighs 5 lbs. $190.00

http://stockcarproducts.com/fan1.htm
That looks like a good unit, But it is TOO thick 3.39" I have less than 3" I am going to use a mopar 5 Blade flex fan for now. How close should the blade be from the rad ???
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2007, 01:10 PM
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On a flex I try to keep them at least an 1" away from the rad. On a fixed blade you might be able to get by with a 1/2". Make sure that any shourd you use lets at least a 1/2" of hte blades sticking out of the rear of it so that it wont stall the aqir flow.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:52 PM
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Just a FYI post, the difference between the viscous and clutch fan is the little spring at the front center (looks like an old hood spring but small) When cold the clutch fan turns at nearly engine speed then when warm it slows down (fluid thins) untill the temps rise. Then the spring at the front changes the angle of the fins in the clutch to speed it up to keep the temps correct. The viscous fan is simply a fluid coupler and does not change speed. Both units use hi-count blades as they turn considerably slower than engine speed. A 4 blade unit usually works better when operated at or above engine speed like a stocker. (7"+ crank pulley driving 4" WP pulley)
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:15 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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"Viscous drive fan" and "clutch fan" are two different names for the same thing, they both use a viscous medium (silicone) as a coupling.

The unit with the exposed coil spring on the front is a "thermal drive" which changes coupling with temperature, the unit without the spring is a "torque drive" that doesn't compensate for temperature.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:57 AM
kick_the_reverb kick_the_reverb is offline
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I agree with John (not that he needs any support from me), and wanted to add:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelsr View Post
Then the spring at the front changes the angle of the fins in the clutch to speed it up to keep the temps correct.
It's more of an on-off effect. The viscous drive never really transfers 100% of the energy (so you have "heavy duty" models that turn at around 80-90% engine speed, and "standard duty" models that turn at a lower percentage of engine speed).
Ran
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_440 Savoy View Post
John's right again. The clutch fan won't fit. I have less than 3 " between the water pump snout and the rad. I was looking at Flexolite Scirocco Part # 365 Fan 1600 CFM 2 1/2" thick . Still Only gives me Less than 1/2" I looked at Spal Fans and I think they are two thick too. How much CFM air is needed for a BB with a Alum Rad ??? What about Flexolite bolt on fiberglass fan blades ???
get a shorter clutch
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