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  #1  
Old 12-04-2007, 06:21 PM
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Default I've about had it with Chrysler

This may be in the wrong forum. Mods, move it if you must.

I hope someone from Chrysler reads this rant.

My next car may not be a Chrysler product. It depends on what happens to me at the dealer when I get there this afternoon.

I've been a loyal Chrysler man for over 30 years. In fact, my yard is full of 'em: a 1973 RR clone, a 1995 Intrepid commuter car, a 1999 Durango, a 2001 300M and a 2003 Ram 2500. Also, my daughter has a 2002 Neon. So there are 6 Mopars at my place.

But there may be no more.

I've had issues with the 300M Check Engine Light coming on now and again. I have a scan tool and it's always been an evaporative control leak. I'd reset it, and sometimes it would come right back, other times it would stay out for a month or two but it always, eventually, came back on.

2 weeks ago, I changed the gas cap and reset the light.

Last week, the light came back on. So my wife and I decided we'd take it to the dealer for a check. The car is still under warranty (it was a Certified Pre-Owned car with the 8/80,000 warranty, and it has about 75K on the clock).

The dealer just called me and told me they found the problem with leaks in some vacuum lines in the evaporative control system. They also told me that it needs a new gas cap. (See above - this really makes me suspect of their diagnostic skills. The SM was pretty quiet when I told him that the cap was new just 2 weeks ago.)

But then, he said these items (vacuum lines) aren't covered by the warranty. I was pi$$ed, so I called Chrysler Customer Service. They called the dealer and parroted back what the Service Manager told me, that vacuum lines aren't covered.

So when I go pick it up, I'll probably have to pay about $115 for their "diagnostic fee", but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay them to make this repair if it's not covered under warranty.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna to take it any more. (A similar raping took place over a different issue, at a different dealer, about 6 months ago.) If they make me pay for this repair, I'm writing Chrysler off my list of cars to look at in the future. They'll be losing a loyal customer over a petty fix. I'll switch to GM in a heartbeat.

ARE YOU LISTENING, CHRYSLER LLC???
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:39 PM
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I can understand your frustration, but rubber hoses are a wear item like brakes and tires. It isn't the dealer making the decisions on the warranty. They have to follow the coverage allowed by Chrysler. Read all warranty literature you have or request a copy from the dealer. It might clear up a few things.

If you refuse to pay, then they can put your old stuff back on. Is that what you want?
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:06 PM
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I also have to ask is this a dealer warranty or Chrysler's? I had a warranty on the Jeep through Carmax and while I have no problems buying another vehicle from them, I will not spend the money on their warranty or take the vehicle to them to get any work fixed after my experiances with that part of the company.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:50 PM
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It's a warranty through Chrysler. It was a car from their CPO program and Chrysler offered the 8/80 warranty on it. Hell, it was better than the 7/70 program they were offering on a NEW car at the time, for crying out loud.

Dick, all they could show me for coverage was something on their web site. I'm going to have to dig up my own paperwork here at home, but for them to rely on a web site to "prove" coverage or non-coverage of an item is pretty lame; how easy is it to change a web page, anyway?

But it's all water over the dam now. I know it's a problem with the Mother Ship, not the dealer. And no, they didn't have to put the old parts back on because I didn't authorize the repair; they never took them off. I did have to pay the $115 diagnostic fee, because what they found "wasn't covered". To be fair, the tech did show me where he found problems so I can fix them myself. I'm not mad at the dealer, just Ma Mopar.

So right now I'm thinking that I'm done with Chrysler. Hate to say it, but it just might be so. I really like the vehicles I have but I've been jacked around on two consecutive warranty visits by two separate dealers. (The first one was even worse because they didn't even address the problem I had; they just charged me for their routine inspection.) I'll keep these until the wheels fall off but when it's time for new ones, I'm just likely to make the jump to the General.
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:18 AM
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I guess I can't understand the issue. Are you upset because the hoses weren't covered under warranty or is it because you feel duped by a warranty that doesn't cover everything?
  #6  
Old 12-05-2007, 01:56 AM
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So you'll buy new gm garbage because you couldn't get a hose replaced on a used car? I can understand being aggravated, but your solution doesn't seem logical. What are you going to get, a blowtie truck or a FWD Monte Carlo? Don't bite off your nose to spite your face.
Seriously, if you think that GM warrantee service is better or they don't have problem dealers as well, think again.
  #7  
Old 12-05-2007, 11:33 AM
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Wink Anger management

Starts with taking two deep breaths. Now, is a rubber line or two going to break you? Having worked at a Dodge dealer for several years, I can recall a few incidents where the customer blew the whole issue out of proportion. They could never be satisfied, no matter how we tried. We were a dealership with a reputation that pulled service business from Canada and all over Montana. We were darn good, and did things Chrysler would not do. The situation you have is, frankly, one of anger, not one of reason. It is not Chrysler's fault, nor the dealer's, that you won't accept a simple solution. The 300M is a great car. I would not let a little rubber hose expense give me a cardio event!
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:41 PM
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Yep, I'm mad. Mad at the Chrysler Mothership, not at the dealer. The warranty was supposedly in place to cover powertrain and emissions control systems for 8 years or 80,000 miles. The car is less than 7 years old and has 75K on the clock.

I would completely understand their position if it were a vacuum line to a heat control valve, or something of the like. But this is an emissions-control system fault, one which would cause me to fail an emissions test if I lived someplace that required one. And the fact that they "tested" my brand-new gas cap and tried to sell me another one makes me even more suspicious of their intentions.

I have no idea whether the General has better warranty service than Chrysler. But I've been hosed twice by Chrysler this year on what I feel should be warranty items and I'm ready to try something new when the day comes.

But no, I'm not going to sell off my Chrysler cars, because everything in my yard is fully paid for and running well. Plus, I really like them. What I'm saying is that my blind allegiance to Chrysler just regained its eyesight, largely because of poor customer service, and when the day comes for a new vehicle, I will likely look somewhere else first. That's years down the road, though; who knows, maybe something will happen make me blind again.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:31 PM
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Dan, if they have refused to pay for hose that might be emissions control related, are you sure it isn't excluded in the warranty? If it isn't and is truly part of the emissions equipment, then they have to cover it. In fact, I think there is a "Federal" emissions warranty requirement that covers for 80,000 miles.

Talk to them again and read your warranty. Maybe it can be resolved. BTW, how much for the hose?
  #10  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:34 PM
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I would talk with a zone rep. I had a similar problem why back with a dakota timing chain. The truck was out of warrenty, by about 2,000 miles and the chain was going bad. I explained to the zone rep that I thought that a timing chain should last longer than it did. I also had paper work showing that the truck had been serviced regularly. Chrysler ended up fixing it at no charge to me. It was over $700 bucks at the time to fix it. I have been ripped off by dealers as well so I understand your anger. I also think that dealer service makes a world of difference if people are going to come back and buy another car or truck from the same manufacturer.
Good Luck
Brian
  #11  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:35 PM
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What I've found between the manufacturer's is that all the warranties are pretty much the same. I don't think even GM would cover a leaking vacuum line as it is a consumable like brakes or radiator hoses. As far as the gas cap goes, that's all on the service department technician.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:50 PM
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Dan,


Tell us what other manufacturer would cover the repairs that you need under warranty.
  #13  
Old 12-05-2007, 03:09 PM
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I would check your warranty closely. The emissions warranty for my 03 PT states that any failure that prevents the car from passing the emissions requirement is warrantied for 8/80 with no deductable.

Here is Mass that means if it turns on the check engine light it's covered.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:21 PM
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Oh, when I get a chance, I'll be reading my warranty paperwork very closely.

Dick, I have no idea what the hoses cost, as I didn't let them do the work. I'll eventually do it myself unless someone at the Mothership changes their mind.

Dave, that's exactly how I feel. Since it's a CEL issue, and it's caused by an emissions control item, I feel it should be covered. When I talked to the rep in Detroit (at least he wasn't in New Delhi), all he did was tell me that he talked to the service writer, who said the hose isn't covered.

Of course he said that. Why would the service writer say anything different to the CR person than what he told me?

More than the money I laid out, this is about their customer service. I think it should be covered under the emissions control warranty; they say otherwise, and I feel like I have no recourse. I may try to find a zone rep to talk to but before I go through that brain damage, I need to look at my warranty coverage closely. Not sure it'll help. It likely says hoses are a consumable, which is their position. My position is that this is an emissions control problem, and we're probably not going to agree anyway.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:33 PM
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Strange that the rep in Detroit didn't know what the emissions warranty covered. Sounds like a living phonebot.

JFK&G, check with another dealer.
  #16  
Old 12-05-2007, 04:05 PM
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Yep, and after reading the warranty paperwork very carefully for Mopars, GM, Hyundai and Honda, I can tell you that none of them cover the hoses. They are considered a consumable item. The devices to which they hook up are covered on emmissions stuff, but none of them covered the hoses. I studied it all very carefully before agreeing to buy a car. :-)PCRMike
  #17  
Old 12-05-2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick View Post
Dan, if they have refused to pay for hose that might be emissions control related, are you sure it isn't excluded in the warranty? If it isn't and is truly part of the emissions equipment, then they have to cover it. In fact, I think there is a "Federal" emissions warranty requirement that covers for 80,000 miles.

Talk to them again and read your warranty. Maybe it can be resolved. BTW, how much for the hose?


I've wondered about that too, IIRC all emissions equipment is covered as well as components related to it. Google or Yahoo emissions warrentys when you get the chance Dan.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:31 PM
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What does the hose do? Is it just an evap hose or breather? I would do one of three things. A) explain that its part of the entire emissions system and rubber or not its part. B) Its a rubber hose, they wear out especially if its a place water and other grime can get(therefore not covered). C) How long did you wait to take it in to get serviced? I mean from the sound of it you knew it was the emissions system(granted most of us know the cap thing) but if you clear it and it comes back over and over? Me i woulda taken it to the shop and been like hey there is something with the emissions system? fix it under warrenty? Your so far at the end of the warrenty that parts will wear out and you postponed figuring out what it was. I wouldn't be mad at mopar because you might of had a better chance when it first happened to get it fixed. Waited to long is what it seems to me. Your just gonna have to deal basically. I doubt you'll move a corporation.

To me thats like saying hey my catalytic convertor is rusted out and has holes in it( i live in Pennsylvania we still use salt) and i want it replaced under warrenty. The dealership is gonna laugh and tell me to shove it. But its a emissions control item, but the nature of the defect is non controlable so therefore not covered even under federal guidlines. Its the owners responsibility. I had a similar problem on a Frd.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:41 PM
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Read Mike's post #16. Hoses aren't covered.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:16 PM
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hey DanL, I know you're frustration. we have a 03 durango we bought in 03. we owned it for 2 years when the trans went out, yeah the crappy german ones(5 speed). they covered it and took 2 weeks to repair. was told it was the valve body and will more than likely do it again,tho probably after warranty is up! shortly after that cel light on for emissions fault. cleared the code and came back,took back to dealer thought it was still under warranty. ha- found out the emiss. system hoses are not covered and the dealer wanted 150. plus labor to replace the system hoses. got pissed told them to shove it didnt pay for the scan as I already told them what it was and took my durango home. started checking the hoses and found the hose next to the service/test port was split about 2 inches and hard as a rock. cut all that out and replaced with QUALITY hose. been on ever since. I am thinking like you. probably will not buy another chrysler unless something changes with the new company
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:25 AM
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They showed me where the hoses are split. It's where they come to the airbox, and shouldn't be too hard to replace. But that's not the issue here.

Yes, I had the trouble several times over the past 6 months or so but this has always been a gas cap for these problems in the past (on other vehicles), so I put it off thinking the new cap would fix it. Plus, we live in such a dusty area, I really had no doubt that it was just a plugged up cap.

But an 80K warranty isn't a 75K-or-so warranty; they say 80K, it means 80K.

My position on this is that if we lived in a place where the car needed an E-test, it wouldn't pass. That makes this an emissions system fault, regardless of which component caused it.

My wife talked to the Dodge dealer on her tool truck route. At first, they seemed to think that these things would be covered; then, after further review, they said these hoses are only covered under the 3/36 portion of the warranty.

Anyway, this time, it's not the dealer I'm mad at. It's the Chrysler Mothership.

Mr. Tallent: That wouldn't be the Faricy Boys dealership, would it? They're the ones I got so hot about last spring. I did manage to get their service writer all warmed up and ready for an Air Force Major who was anxious to lay into him, too. So I wasn't the only one that day.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post

Yes, I had the trouble several times over the past 6 months or so but this has always been a gas cap for these problems in the past (on other vehicles), so I put it off thinking the new cap would fix it. Plus, we live in such a dusty area, I really had no doubt that it was just a plugged up cap.
There you go u waited. Anyway like i said if its something that can wear out!! they wont replace it under warrent.(ie: rubber hoses, brake lines, oil caps, brake pads, etc.) For state inspection you must have brakes pads over a certain percentage. If they are low they are not covered under any warrenty because they are a normale wear and tear part same as a rubber hose
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dgc333 View Post
I would check your warranty closely. The emissions warranty for my 03 PT states that any failure that prevents the car from passing the emissions requirement is warrantied for 8/80 with no deductable.

Here is Mass that means if it turns on the check engine light it's covered.
So if your catalytic convertor is rusted out you warrenty will replace it? i dont think so, no warrenty covers wearable parts
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:42 PM
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hey DanL, I know you're frustration. we have a 03 durango we bought in 03. we owned it for 2 years when the trans went out, yeah the crappy german ones(5 speed). they covered it and took 2 weeks to repair. was told it was the valve body and will more than likely do it again,tho probably after warranty is up! shortly after that cel light on for emissions fault. cleared the code and came back,took back to dealer thought it was still under warranty. ha- found out the emiss. system hoses are not covered and the dealer wanted 150. plus labor to replace the system hoses. got pissed told them to shove it didnt pay for the scan as I already told them what it was and took my durango home. started checking the hoses and found the hose next to the service/test port was split about 2 inches and hard as a rock. cut all that out and replaced with QUALITY hose. been on ever since. I am thinking like you. probably will not buy another chrysler unless something changes with the new company
No warrenty company, Ford - General motors, Honda, Audi, porsche etc etc will cover that. So leave a good company for an even worse one then. Everyone is petty.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:02 PM
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There you go u waited. ..
That's irrelevant. The car is still under the age/mileage limit of the warranty.

Anyway, what if I'd waited 6 hours instead of 6 months? 6 days? 6 weeks? How long would be "too long"? I don't see anything that says the vehicle must arrive for service within "X" number of days, miles, or any other criteria, particularly for something that causes no driveabilty problems.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:05 PM
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So if your catalytic convertor is rusted out you warrenty will replace it? i dont think so, no warrenty covers wearable parts

The cat IS one of those parts that is covered by the federally mandated 80K warranty. Regardless of the failure, if it can no longer do its job, it will be replaced. It is not considered a wear item. Hoses, on the other hand, are consumables and aren't covered.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:57 PM
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This is just a personal thought. I look at a warrenty as something to help with a major problem. Bad motor, trans, drivetrain, Suspension, electrical and injection. Things like that. A little rubber hose would get me so p'd off that im never gonna but another vehicle from that company. People says its the fact of the matter its a cheap and easy part, they should just do it. Thats is it just constrewed. Its a wearable cheap and easy part to fix. Not a major vehicle altering, vehicle performance altering, life threatening thing. A warranty is not a gaurantee. Its coverage againts something happening to a covered part. Normally a non wear and tear parts.

Also check out this link for the EPA. I found an EPA document. Print read remember.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

and look at this one to its for a 300 m warranty pdf.

http://www.chrysler.com/crossbrand/w..._allbrands.pdf

it says what is covered. Hoses are not a major specific part listed for 8yr/80k
for the 2/24k yes
Major for 8/80 is obd,ecu and cat convertor. No hose unless specified by corporation. All corporations i looked this up no one covers it.
  #28  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:09 AM
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Dan, what makes you think GM will take any better care of you then Chysler/Dodge?
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:45 AM
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This is just a personal thought. I look at a warrenty as something to help with a major problem. Bad motor, trans, drivetrain, Suspension, electrical and injection. Things like that.
OK, no argument there. Warranty should cover major problems.

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A little rubber hose would get me so p'd off that im never gonna but another vehicle from that company.
But you just said major problems, so why would a little rubber hose piss you off? That is contradictory to your first statement.

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People says its the fact of the matter its a cheap and easy part, they should just do it. Thats is it just constrewed. Its a wearable cheap and easy part to fix.
OK, cheap and easy. The owner could change it without having to go to school or take out a loan.

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Originally Posted by bigj3341 View Post
Not a major vehicle altering, vehicle performance altering, life threatening thing.
No, just a nuisance failure of a piece of rubber that is on every vehicle made today and subject to deterioration from age and use. A wear item.

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Originally Posted by bigj3341 View Post
A warranty is not a gaurantee. Its coverage againts something happening to a covered part. Normally a non wear and tear parts.
Better look it up. From Webster's Dictionary: "Warranty...a usually written guarantee of the integrity of a product and of the maker's responsibility for the repair or replacement of defective parts."
Again, you refer to non wear and tear parts.

The rest of your post seems to bolster the position of wear items not covered after 24/24, seemingly in contrast to some of the things you said. Could be that you were in a hurry and didn't read what you had written.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:37 AM
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Dan, what makes you think GM will take any better care of you then Chysler/Dodge?
I can tell you from watching what my dad goes through with his GMs that are under warranty, that they wont. He had an issue with his 2001 S10 (only has 26k on it) with the CEL popping on and coming up with evap system codes all the time. This was causing the truck not to pass inspection because the CEL was on. He had that thing back to the dealer at least 5 times about it and their only answer was to reset the computer and drive a couple of thousand miles before inspections. He got so fed up with this that he will never go back to that dealer again. His friend that has a shop told him to replace the gas cap and he has never had another issue with it. GM service is no better than any other company. Bottom line is, its a rubber hose that will probably cost under $10 to replace and it is not covered under warranty. Just suck it up and replace it yourself, thats what I would do. I wouldnt let that keep me from buying another Chrysler product, rubber gets hard and brittle after a while no matter what company put it on the vehicle.
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