motor questions

[BH 71 challenger R/T]

i have a chance to either put a 440 or 383 in my challenger, what does eveyone like better? advantages or dis would be great

[dwc43]

440. More cubes, more power. You can use a larger cam cause the 383 can get over cammed just like a small block. Besides, if you go stroker it still has more cubes over a 383 stroker and even more torque and hp.

[BH 71 challenger R/T]

thanks! what "car" "car's" do u have?

[dwc43]

A list too long to mention, but I'll hit the high points for ya. I have two 71's a 72 and a 74 Dodge Charger, a 24 valve 3,5 Intrepid, a RamCharger to pull our race cars with, a D300 ramp truck that can carry a race car and a trailer with a built 440 in it, a '68 D300 flat bed, a 74 Duster that I am building a big block stroker for right now and about 3 race cars at any givin time. Hows that for the short list?

[BH 71 challenger R/T]

ha plenty good, sounds like a great collection, have u restored any of them yourself?

[dwc43]

I have. I need to restore that '72. I like it the best. It's Hemi orange with a black vinly top and black interior with slap stick and console. It also has the hide a way head lights that was an option for that year and last year available too.

I also want to restore the '68 D300 next though. IT will be a quick job to fix it. Just a new seat cover, and paint everything. It has 69,xxx original miles on it. A farmer bought it new and I'm the second owner. I bought it after he passed on. It had sit in a barn for years. It has a 318 4spd. and a Dana 70 with 4.88 gears from the factory in it.

I just tried to post a pic of the Ram Charger with one of the race cars ona trailer, but it was too big. I'm fixing to head out so I'll try to post you some pics tomorrow.

[BH 71 challenger R/T]

thanks! cant wait to see some pictures

[valiant64]

the 440 costs basically the same to build as the 383, so you will get more torque + HP with the 440 for the same money. If I had a 383 & a 440 core engine to build, I would go with the 440. (and I did.) An argument can be made for stroker B engines, but that wasnt the question.

[Paul Precht]

The 440 will make more torque than the 383 but if both engines have the same Compression, Heads, Carb, Mani and cam the HP will be almost identical, I proved it to non believers back in early 74 in my race car. It's an interesting story if you want to hear it, Paul.

[moparman92]

Originally Posted by dwc43

A list too long to mention, but I'll hit the high points for ya. I have two 71's a 72 and a 74 Dodge Charger, a 24 valve 3,5 Intrepid, a RamCharger to pull our race cars with, a D300 ramp truck that can carry a race car and a trailer with a built 440 in it, a '68 D300 flat bed, a 74 Duster that I am building a big block stroker for right now and about 3 race cars at any givin time. Hows that for the short list?

If you ever want to sell the 68 D300 please let me know i mean please.

[BH 71 challenger R/T]

hey thanks for the imput, i really apreciate it,

Brad

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by Paul Precht

The 440 will make more torque than the 383 but if both engines have the same Compression, Heads, Carb, Mani and cam the HP will be almost identical, I proved it to non believers back in early 74 in my race car. It's an interesting story if you want to hear it, Paul.

Amen Paul. The slightest difference at best. But, for the next 150 years, you'll be preaching that again and again and again.

More stroke, more torque BH 71 challenger R/T. The extra torque will make moving the car easier and off the line quicker

[namvet67a1f]

From what I have seen lately ...past buying the cylinder block ...

building a 440 over a 383 should be cheaper.

[valiant64]

I've also heard that a similarly built 383 to 440 will make about the same HP, albeit @ a few hundred more rpm's. Still, the 440 has the edge torque-wise.

[dust]

>_>

<_<

426.

^_^

[Paul Precht]

383 Pistons and rings are cheaper. Everything else is about the same. The 440 is a great choice, Paul.

[namvet67a1f]

Originally Posted by valiant64

I've also heard that a similarly built 383 to 440 will make about the same HP, albeit @ a few hundred more rpm's. Still, the 440 has the edge torque-wise.

More torque is almost a "given" ..... but about the same HP ??

On the two motors ..... being same-built ... and the 440 making 500 HP.... why would the 383 be producing ...

.18 HP per cubic inch MORE?

[MOPEkid]

Because all of the parts flow the same on both engines, and on the 440 you're making HP from the extra torque; on the 383, you're making the same amount of HP but with more RPM. At first it didn't make sense to me either, but the more you think about it...

[namvet67a1f]

Originally Posted by MOPEkid

Because all of the parts flow the same on both engines, and on the 440 you're making HP from the extra torque; on the 383, you're making the same amount of HP but with more RPM. At first it didn't make sense to me either, but the more you think about it...

I do SEE your "flow" point especially on the heads .... but WHAT does the NHRA say as far as a stock-eliminator car ... with the two different motors ?

I would venture a guess that the 440 car is much quicker and faster.

[MOPEkid]

Originally Posted by namvet67a1f

I do SEE your "flow" point especially on the heads .... but WHAT does the NHRA say as far as a stock-eliminator car ... with the two different motors ?

I would venture a guess that the 440 car is much quicker and faster.

It will be quicker, but not necessarily faster...

[namvet67a1f]

Mk .....what are the stock eliminator class diffs between say ... in a 1970 Roadrunner - 440 and a 383 ?

And what are the current class record ?

[cudabob496]

If two engines are built the same, yet one is a 440 and the other a 383, I thought there was a thumbrule that you get an extra 1 hp on a performance engine for every extra cubic inch? I'm not hearing that on this thread? I'm hearing from some that they will make the same power. That does not make sense to me. Could someone enlighten me? That's why I went to a 496, to make more power.

[63Fury]

OK the way I understand it is this.

If you take a short block 440 and 383 built the same and bolt on stock heads 509 cam and good intake and carb they will make around the same HP but the 440 will have more torque. As I understand the reason for this is simple head design & flow with the stock heads. The 383 gets more out of the stock heads than the 440 does. Just like the 383 gets more out of the cam than the 440. I always looked at the 383's as a small block with big block heads and durability. Now if you take the same two short blocks and bolt on Indy or eddy heads the 440 is going to start walking away from the 383 in HP and torque as the 440 gets alot more out of the aftermarket heads.

I like small blocks and I love the the 383 big block. I have a stock 440 in one of the farm trucks and I love the torque that thing makes in granny gear. I went with a 383 in my 63 plymouth for two simple reasons. 1. Mother Mopar gave birth to my Fury with a 383. 2. I had all the major go fast parts (pistons, block, crank, 906 heads) for the 383 already. If I would have had all the parts to build the 440 I may have leaned that way.

Other things to keep in mind......
What RPM range do you want to work in. If you really like to buzz the engine go with the 383. If you like the low end torque go with the 440.

If you are going to use stock heads and have a smaller buget go with the 383. If you are going with aftermarket heads choose the 440.

The last thing is you will have just a bit more room with the 383 over the 440. Makes it easier to change plus and work with headers......

[charger_dan]

BH,

You didn't mention a budget, or intended use, however:

4 4 0.

Build with lightweight internals ( stroke it if budget allows ),

decent aftermarket heads ( again, budget & cubic inches will determine ),

and decent oiling system.

Torque for days – mucho power — excellent reliability – no worri

[rumblefish360]

The absoulutly wonderful thing about stroking a engine is;

1. The rotating assembly is going to make monster torque, and the more arm you give it, the more torque it will make and sooner in the RPM band it'll make it.

2. The whole rotating assembly should be getting lighter in weight. This helps it rev faster and if your pocket has the coin on top of it all, spin higher.

The draw back (?!) if there is one, would be NOT giving the new displacement enuff head on top to allow it to do what it can and should or even worse, what you hoped for.

If you build a 500 stroker and top it off with stock heads, it'll perform like a 440 that simply costs a whole lot more.
The rule of thumb of 1 hp per cube larger is something I never heard of.

On a strict look at the OP's listed choices, 440 or 383, cost is about the same. The biggest difference in price is pistons. Everything else should really be the same or within a few penny of each other because it is all the same save crank and rod bearings.

[MOPEkid]

I thought longer-stroke engines put more load on the cylinder walls and made the pistons shorter... Also I'm wondering, if two engines of the same displacement have different strokes, will the longer-stroke engine get worse gas mileage?

[cudabob496]

Going with a 440 or 496 not only has to do with torque, but power. My 496 makes all its power (600+) in the 3500 to 6500 range. Torque drops off as rpms go up. My 496 makes that power becuase of free flowing heads and the cam selected. If I destroke my 496 to 440, then I will lose power. An engine is a big air pump, and the more air and fuel you can move through it, the more power you make. And the more displacement you have, the more air you can move. Whether you bore or stroke it, the more displacment, the more power, because you move more air.

[cudabob496]

The 383 had a lot of 440 components, including heads and cam, yet it was rated at 330 horse, and the 440 was rated 375 horse. That's because the 440had more displacement.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by MOPEkid

I thought longer-stroke engines put more load on the cylinder walls and made the pistons shorter...

Yes

Also I'm wondering, if two engines of the same displacement have different strokes, will the longer-stroke engine get worse gas mileage?

Good question, I don't know.

[cudabob496]

Originally Posted by MOPEkid

I thought longer-stroke engines put more load on the cylinder walls and made the pistons shorter... Also I'm wondering, if two engines of the same displacement have different strokes, will the longer-stroke engine get worse gas mileage?

If same displacement, but different stroke, then the engines are going to make their power and torque at different rpms. So whether you get better mileage with one engine over another depends on what rpm you run the engines at when you measure your gas mileage.