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Old 01-22-2008, 12:50 PM
wheels2 wheels2 is offline
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Default cooling problem

help, I've got a bracket car running 7.50 (1/8 mile), 440 727. This summer I bought an alum crossflow rad. The old "B" body rad would let me get 180/200 so I thought I would get a better rad. The new crossflow has the same size core but is wider because tanks are on the sides. Well now on launchat 150/160 its 180 by 60 ft clocks, 330ft its 220 and blows the punk tank full. Stays up around 190/210 for a while, you have to open the hood and pick up punk tank to get it to run back into the rad, then it cools ok. I've put a extra 16 inch pusher fan in front of the rad no help. I've got the little Morso kit with the plastic fan, it comes on with the ignition.

My thoughts:
The small tube in th rad to the punk tank is crimped and loose, part of problem.
When the punk is full the rad level is at or below the shaft of the water pump, I can not see any sign of water flow in the rad.
When I had the brackets welded for the rad , we put then side by side a welded them there and they fit fine. But with the crossflow not having a tank on the bottom the rad is actually 1 3/ 4 inch lower than stock location

If I raise the rad 1 3/4 it would raise the water level in the block???
I need the cooling because some nites we run 7.50 heads and bracket race and time between rounds is very short?
Any ideas??????

Thanks
wheels2
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2008, 04:41 PM
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dwc43 dwc43 is offline
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Biggrin

First thing to do is get rid of that rad. You're another one having heating problems due to the cross flow gm rad. Get a reg. down draft. Don't put a pusher fan on it cause it blocks the air flow from the grill and you may not have enough area to begin with. As long as your not over 200* it's fine anyways. Make sure to run a shroud behind the rad. On some cars we have even run a tunnel from the rad to the grill to channel the air to the rad. I'm sure you know, but I'll repeat it. Check your timing and carb jetting since they effect temps as well.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:26 PM
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cageman cageman is offline
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I wont run a top and bottom tank, that is such a stupid design, putting the cap on the pressure side, who was the idiot that came up with that.
I would say you have a bda radiator cap, or maybe it isnt big enough, like a 5 pound, get a higher pressure cap and I am certain it will go away.
Any air in the system is bad, I rev the motor a bit to get the pump running good, and then add water and throw the cap on. I also do it with the front wheels on the ramps of the trailer, that way hopefully trapped air comes out, it helps.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:39 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Aluminum radiators usually have a higher cooling capacity, but they tend to take a lot more airflow than a copper/brass. They also have less thermal mass, and more mass is good for a short burst like drag race.

My guess is that you are short of air, what pulley ratio are you running.
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:41 PM
dodger1 dodger1 is offline
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You might read through the Thermostat thread on this page for more info on cooling problems, especially air locks.
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Old 01-23-2008, 06:08 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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I have a 72 service manual for my Cuda. It lists possible causes of overheating: blocked radiator air passages, incorrect timing, low engine oil, incorrect valve timing, bad temp gauge, restricted overflow tube, faulty rad cap, frozen heat control valve, dragging brakes, excessive engine idle, frozen coolant, faulty fan drive, faulty temp sending unit, faulty vacuum bypass valve, overfilling, insufficient corrosion inhibiter, blown head gasket, broken or shifted lower hose spring, low coolant level, collapsed rad hose, fan belt lose, glazed, or oily, air leak through bottom hose, bad thermostat, water pump impeller broken or lose, restricted rad water passages or restricted engine water jacket.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:11 PM
Charger 69/72 Charger 69/72 is offline
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Turbododge,

You mentioned pulleys ratios. Now I don't know what pulley setup Wheels2 is using, but I'm using the non a/c pulleys so that means that my water pump pulley is just about the same size as my crank pulley. I'd like to use the smaller water pump pulley found on a/c cars, but I'd think that there would be a lot of fabricating required sice the is no a/c compressor on my car. What do you recommend for changing pulley ratios?
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:10 AM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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The non-ac pulleys are about .95 ratio, basically the same size. AC pulleys run at about 1.33, so the pump, and particularly the fan, run much faster. The AC pump has smaller blades on the pump, so it moves about the same water as the non AC running slower, but the extra air of the fan is big plus.

I found that the faster speed made a huge difference with the aluminum radiator, as the the radiator has more room for air to go through it, compared to a copper/brass.

The extra speed doesn't really cost you much in hp if you use a clutch fan, which releases at under 2000 rpm anyway.

I made an AC diameter pulley that mounts like a non-AC pulley by cutting the centers out of one of each and using a piece of 3" exhaust tubing to connect them. Use the AC groove, 3" tubing, then the standard pulley flange and mount. It was really pretty easy and took about an hour to do.
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Old 01-24-2008, 10:53 AM
Charger 69/72 Charger 69/72 is offline
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Turbododge,

Thanks for the response. I'll give it a try and see how it works. I didn't think that you could go any smaller on the diameter without contacting the water pump mounting flange or at least the bolt heads - I figured that's why the smaller pulley was shorter - to move it away from the water pump mounting flange.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:21 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Here is a pic of my setup. The alternater has been put down low to clear the turbos, but the waterpump pulley would be the same. It actually fits well over the pump with the tubing, and in tight like an original non AC pulley would.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:28 PM
Charger 69/72 Charger 69/72 is offline
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Turbododge,

I see that your setup is on a small block - have you tried this with a big block? That's what I'm working with - sorry about the confusion.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:50 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Never messed with big block, but I don't know offhand why it wouldn't be very similar. Maybe someone else who uses both would be able to give us some input on that.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:02 AM
BeeGee1028 BeeGee1028 is offline
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Default 'Hot' 440

First thing, "hello to all". Newby here, to the site and to MOPARs. Old Chevy guy... My situation is similar to Wheels2 except I put the same set-up car on the street.
Ran 250 degrees on a mild nite returning from a cruise 12 miles away. Changes I made and problems I found; new direct replacement aluminum radiator, 180 deg thermo, 13 lb rad cap, relocated dual 12 inch shrouded fans to rear of rad (on all the time) inserted a brass 1.5 inch tube in upper rad hos since it was collapsing with rpm, inserted spring into lower hose since it had none (and they are not using them anymore) rejetted my 850 from #90 to #93, running water only. Doing all this I got it down to 210 degrees. I am still not comfortable with the running temp.
So, I will verify timing, replace 4:56 with a 3:55, install a 22 lb cap, remove small crank pulley and replace with stock. I don't know what else to do so I too am asking for ideas. Thanks Bill
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:43 PM
wheels2 wheels2 is offline
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Thanks to all for ideas, I forgot this thread was still alive. What I did was to take the old B-body shroud off then it got hotter. So I backed up and made a shroud out of a 6 inch strip of fiberglass, and just 1/2" larger than the little Morso fan. Mounted it with 4 tabs and ziptyes throught the rad and it works fine. With a 1/4 mile pass its 180 at traps, 210 at et shack, 180 back to the pit and 140 in 10 min. I don't enen turn on the 16 in pusher in front of the rad as it does not seem to help at all???

Thanks for all the ideas to make think
Wheels2
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