Bad BB parts combo?

[MOPEkid]

Hey everyone. Yesterday a few buddies and I went to look at an old Dodge van ('77 B200 I think) with a rebuilt 400 big-block. The guy started it up and it sounded bad-ass, of course, but my friend (the one who's looking for an old van) was a bit turned off when we asked what sort of gas mileage it got. The guy said 8.6, 8.9 at best. I then thought to myself, why is a mild 400 getting such low gas mileage? Then I thought about it. The engine has stock pistons, shaved (but unported) stock heads, an RV cam, and Hedman Hedders, but for some stupid reason has an Edelbrock Torker II intake (single plane ) and Carter Competition Series 625 cfm AFB carb. I'm thinking the guy chose the wrong intake and carb for the job; personally I think he should have gone with a Performer intake and ThermoQuad carb. Do you agree? If we put those things on ourselves, what do you think the mileage would come up to? BTW it was the long-wheelbase (but not MaxiVan) model and the guy used it to haul carpet.

[dave5711]

The intake is going to hurt the mileage.

A big cam will KILL the mileage in a heavy rig like that. My old shorty van was 5000 pounds with me in it, and a BB.

A properly set up carb will get the same mileage regardless of what brand it is.
A change to a TQ won't make a big difference. It will likely help, but not a lot.

Mine was hard on fuel too, and I had the comp up to 10:1.

It's the weight and the big cam. Makes the vauum signal low, and the mileage poopy

[MOPEkid]

So RV cams are big? I'm thinking a well-built 360 would work best; maybe Magnum heads and flat-tops for around 10.3:1 comp, mild cam, drilled heads to make Performer intake + TQ fit, and ported Magnum truck exhaust manifolds.

[thatwasfunny]

dave5711;736003]The intake is going to hurt the mileage.

A big cam will KILL the mileage in a heavy rig like that. My old shorty van was 5000 pounds with me in it, and a BB.


RV cams have little duration and are not 'big'.



A properly set up carb will get the same mileage regardless of what brand it is.



Pretty much.
A change to a TQ won't make a big difference. It will likely help, but not a lot.
Not enough to warrant the carb change, not when you comparing a 625 carter to a TQ.



Mine was hard on fuel too, and I had the comp up to 10:1.


Compression will help milage/efficiency.



It's the weight and the big cam. Makes the vauum signal low, and the mileage poopy[/QUOTE]



The cam is not big being that it is an RV cam.

[dave5711]

"RV cam " is nothing more than a marketing name for mid range performance cams.
Some more radical than others. I've had some say the 242@50 with 510 lift in my 330 is an rv cam. It would be GROSSLY big for a heavy rig like this.

The original post says it sounded "bad -ass"

We have no cam specs to go on, so how can we say the cam is not too big?
No gear info either. If it's got some gearing around 3.0:1 then you stuff a cam in it with a heavy rig, the mileage will drop through the floor. The motor is lugging ALL the time.

"Compression will help milage/efficiency"Yes.Exactly my point. I had more comp,than this stocker with shaved heads, and still got horrible mileage.
Mine was a 220@50, .470 lift, with iron dual plain, and a eddy performer 750

Mine was a shorty, and was still heavy. This long wheelbase will be heavier still.

A van also suffers from what I call "the Garden Shed Effect" In that it is about as aerodynamic as garden shed. Drive that at 70mph and see what happens to the mileage.

A mild 360 properly tuned, may get some decent mileage. Prior to the 400, I had a 360, and it was better on fuel. Probably 14mpg.(10 to 12 depending on the weight of my foot with the BB)

If 12 to 14 is still scary for your friend, he may want to reconsider wanting a full size van. my .02

[MOPEkid]

Yes, the van had 3.00:1 rear gears. I'll tell my friend about the mileage, he probably won't like that too much. He's not a gearhead like me so I don't think he'll like the idea of 14 MPG. I wish he would like to get an old A-body or something, that would be the most practical as far as a cool classic Mopar goes. Although he really wants something that he can put a bed in and turn into a cool custom.

edit: BTW, does anybody know about how aerodynamic an old Valiant or Duster is? I know it won't be very good, I just want to get an idea.

[valiant64]

More aerodynamic than a Dodge van for sure. lol

[MOPEkid]

I talked to my friend some more about maybe even getting a C-body (I love those things), even though they are huge and pretty heavy they would still be better than a van... But I think he's definitely shooting for a van (wants a bed, fridge, other cool stuff like that).

I was thinking some more about an engine too, what about a 408 stroker SB? That would make the most low-end torque out of anything and would probably have no problem pushing a van around.

[valiant64]

What about a B or C body station wagon? That'd be pretty cool & not many people are interested in them, so prices for a clean car may be pretty cheap. The seats fold down, so he could still have his "rolling motel". Ha ha

[MOPEkid]

Originally Posted by valiant64

What about a B or C body station wagon? That'd be pretty cool & not many people are interested in them, so prices for a clean car may be pretty cheap. The seats fold down, so he could still have his "rolling motel". Ha ha

Hey, that's a good idea! I didn't think of that! Might be a little more expensive and harder to find than a van though.

[owatajrkiam]

[QUOTE=MOPEkid;736074]I talked to my friend some more about maybe even getting a C-body (I love those things), even though they are huge and pretty heavy they would still be better than a van... But I think he's definitely shooting for a van (wants a bed, fridge, other cool stuff like that).
You CAN..... put a bed, fridge, sink, doghouse, sauna, exersise equiptment, Drum set! etc. all while towing a trailer or the boat, in a "fusey" C model........Hey!..what's NOT to like!.

Glen

[pishta]

How cool is a guy who cruises around town with a bed in the back of an old van? Ditch that intake and put an Edelbrock SP2P on it. Your not going to see the thrifty side of 12 with that smogger motor and brick shape. I would consider a magnum 360, but even todays FI Dodge Ram pickups are not breaking 14 MPG. Throw a slant 6 or a V6 in it. I drive a Ram 2500 with a 3.6(?) and I go twice the range of the other V8 vans in the yard. No problem lugging 600 lbs of telephone gear around.

[MOPEkid]

I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and see if I can convince him to try to get an old station wagon. Doesn't have the same kind of appeal though, unless it gets some nice paint, wheels, and a nice mill. It's going to be a pain to find an old wagon though, definitely not as easy as an old van.

My friend just loves old vans for some reason. He doesn't want to try to look cool, he would just love to have a cool "custom" van.

[MOPEkid]

Well, mission failure. My friend checked out fuselage.de and while he'll admit they are cool cars, he still really wants a van. Go figure! I would definitely love to have one though. I've never seen a nice C-body in person.

[owatajrkiam]

You haven't seen a nice "C" body!!!!!! Well then check out mine! it's got a 418" stroker in er' now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poj4r7osooo Too many people get caught up in the A B E crowd,and 5 grand will get you junk or needing a lot of work! 5 Grand in a C can get you a nice ride!

Glen

[pishta]

Originally Posted by owatajrkiam

You haven't seen a nice "C" body!!!!!! Well then check out mine! it's got a 418" stroker in er' now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poj4r7osooo Too many people get caught up in the A B E crowd,and 5 grand will get you junk or needing a lot of work! 5 Grand in a C can get you a nice ride!

Glen

Those Hurst 300's are pretty cool too.

[MOPEkid]

No, I mean I've seen plenty of nice C-bodies in pictures and on the internet, but I've never seen one in person or had a ride in one. They are awesome cars, but not everyone likes them that much. Nice Monaco, BTW!

[owatajrkiam]

I know what you mean about seeing them in person,as usually there are only 2 or 3 around when i show mine!. Some "C" models are very rare!. There were something like 680, 69' Monaco 500's built and only less than 200 convert's built,which makes it a whole lot rarer than even my buddies 71' GTX by a whole bunch!. A girl , i have been talking to just bought a mint one like mine for $5,000 and it looks mint!. I will be seeing it this weekend as it's the only other one i've seen running around our town of 700,000 people!. Get you're buddy to ride in one ,..that'll change his mind!. I love going out,and puttin' a spanking on them "rice burners" w/the big ass mufflers ,as mine is twice the length and twice the weight!.

Glen

[MOPEkid]

Well, see, my buddy isn't really a car guy, so he doesn't have a preference to a certain type of "performance" vehicle; he would just like to get an old van, then let me build a nice engine for him so it will be quick and cool.