Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > Technical Forums > Performance Talk

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-30-2008, 11:10 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default How are those (mini)welded-crank strokers ?

Something like .125 to .200 or so. So you can get some decent compression by using a regular cast or forged flat-top piston without having to spend nearly 1000$ on on a set pistons.

Any "report-cards" please !
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-02-2008, 03:41 AM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Biggrin

$1000 for pistons? You can get some Keith Blacks all the way up to 11.5 or so for about $200.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:03 AM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

LOL ...I would not use a set of those KB "hypers" ... in a Chebbie !

The 1000$ pistons are like Wiseco and Diamond.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-02-2008, 12:44 PM
thatwasfunny thatwasfunny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: your head
Age: 75
Posts: 349
Default

Thats cause you might not know what your doing.
I hear this from chevy guys all the time ..
''the ring lands broke, those KB's suk''
''why did my rings butt''

I've run 4 sets in diff motors never had any of these problems cause I gap them correctly and leave adequate skirt clearance.

FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.
IF WE WERE SO SMART WE WOULD MANUFACTURE & SELL OUR OWN PISTONS.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:03 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

ME not know what I am doing ? ....you AIN'T gonna' get in-my-head with this BS of yours !

You don't KNOW ME. You don't know what I have done or used. I have never used a set of these pistons ...and never would. Not UNless they stop making forged or cast OR custom forged pistons.

I DO KNOW of several different people that have used these pistons and have had MAJOR issues with them. You and your FOUR MOTORS ? ....wow - I know people who build that many motors in a MONTH ...for other people ... that would not use those pistons -- if they were given to them.

Your reponse ? ...wasveryfunny ....GET serious.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2008, 05:48 PM
Billydelrio Billydelrio is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Del Rio, Texas, USA
Posts: 919
Default

I used a 3.38 (+.070") stroker crank in a .030" over 318 and got 9.8:1 compression with flat top pistons and 55cc W2 heads. I do not remember the specifications, but the pistons were still below the deck enough for me to use .028" head gaskets.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-04-2008, 12:29 AM
MOPEkid's Avatar
MOPEkid MOPEkid is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Monument, CO
Posts: 470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet67a1f View Post
ME not know what I am doing ? ....you AIN'T gonna' get in-my-head with this BS of yours !

You don't KNOW ME. You don't know what I have done or used. I have never used a set of these pistons ...and never would. Not UNless they stop making forged or cast OR custom forged pistons.

I DO KNOW of several different people that have used these pistons and have had MAJOR issues with them. You and your FOUR MOTORS ? ....wow - I know people who build that many motors in a MONTH ...for other people ... that would not use those pistons -- if they were given to them.

Your reponse ? ...wasveryfunny ....GET serious.
Damn dude, chill the heck out! So what if he's being a bit unreasonable, just let it slide! It's not like he's physically punching you in the face or something, jeez!

Anyway, what's wrong with hypereutectic pistons? If you're motor's going to be super-heavy-duty they might be too brittle, but they seem like the norm nowadays for hot N/A street builds. A guy I'm about to get a 360 block from uses KB Silv-O-Lite's all the time in his street drivers.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-04-2008, 01:00 AM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Hey kid .... after being "attacked" by this guy .... and reading THIS on his published profile ...

Biography:
When I flew in from space I noticed there's a lot of idiot's on this rock.
Location (required):
your head
Vehicle & modifications (required):
space ship
Occupation (required):
farting,pissing in your face. Thanks for visiting, suck it ez


.........he truly "deserved" more than I actually gave-him !!

Those hyper pistons ? .. you labeled them brittle .... and that is what I hear too. These pistons sometimes FALL APART ...when they are subjected to any type of detonation.

KNOWING this why would anyone use them? .... is it worth the 200-700$ savings to literally destroy a complete engine over using these clearly inferior parts ?

I do not want to spend an extra 700$ or so ... if something cheaper will work, be equal to and LIVE. But if these parts fail ... the whole engine is a waste-land.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Slingshot383's Avatar
Slingshot383 Slingshot383 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Age: 66
Posts: 533
Default

Yes, the welded stroker cranks work. You can also shop around for different rods with smaller journal sizes on offset gride the crank to get bigger cubes.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:20 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Ss .... I am new up in this area and I was thinking about this during the winter. I approached a shop(they have abbout 5 stores around MI) ..and they said that it was no problem ..and it is pretty reasonable - 185$.

A 4" stroker crank would be perfect in alot of cases with these OEM standard low-compression pistons.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Rug_Trucker Rug_Trucker is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Nashville TN
Posts: 774
Default

I have run KB flatties in my 360 for 150K. Lots of pinging! I used to have a intake leak for many miles. Lots of low octane fuel (oil) got used up.

It used to ping on a couple of long grades on I-40 burning 93 octane.

Fixed the leak after many 100K and tops looked fine! I did some Mopar combustion cleaner in it before the head swap.

I run 87 now with the leak fixed and only pings when I really stomp it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-04-2008, 08:15 PM
thatwasfunny thatwasfunny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: your head
Age: 75
Posts: 349
Default

LOL!!!!
oh the joy I just received from your posting of my profile....

Yea, I think profiles are for g** ass dating web sites, but it was necessary.
Hope U enjoyed as much as I did your viewing it.

Hyper piston's are really the best bang for yer buck when building performance from mild to wild or even race/claimer ect engines.
They're pretty light, don't grow as much/quieter can handle a decent amount of nitrous and cost lil more than stock replacements in a lot of cases.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:53 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rug_Trucker View Post
I have run KB flatties in my 360 for 150K. Lots of pinging! I used to have a intake leak for many miles. Lots of low octane fuel (oil) got used up.

It used to ping on a couple of long grades on I-40 burning 93 octane.

Fixed the leak after many 100K and tops looked fine! I did some Mopar combustion cleaner in it before the head swap.

I run 87 now with the leak fixed and only pings when I really stomp it.
Well Congrats R T .... you can use my "allotment" of the HYPER pistons !
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-04-2008, 11:56 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatwasfunny View Post
LOL!!!!
oh the joy I just received from your posting of my profile....

Yea, I think profiles are for g** ass dating web sites, but it was necessary.
Hope U enjoyed as much as I did your viewing it.

Hyper piston's are really the best bang for yer buck when building performance from mild to wild or even race/claimer ect engines.
They're pretty light, don't grow as much/quieter can handle a decent amount of nitrous and cost lil more than stock replacements in a lot of cases.
Oh yea ... twf ..... that profile of yours is a real Class Act ....

You want to use Hyper pistons ? ... I will use stock cast replacements.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-05-2008, 09:58 AM
dgc333 dgc333 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pembroke, MA
Posts: 773
Default

With the exception of a few high perfromance engines like the 6.1 hemi, LS6 and LS7 virtually every motor delivered in in new cars these days have cast hypereutetic pistons.

They are superior in every way to a non hypereutetic cast piston. They ultimately may not be a strong as a forged piston but for a N/A street performance motor they are a great choice.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-05-2008, 10:29 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

All OEM motors ? ...I was not aware of that. But if they are so great .... why then do the 3 motors you mention NOT use them ? And what type pistons do these motors use? .... a plain cast or forged ...or even custom forged?

Just curious ... how many motors from the USA OEM in the past say 30 years ... have used a forged piston?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-06-2008, 12:33 AM
pishta's Avatar
pishta pishta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Tustin, CA
Age: 55
Posts: 3,987
Default

That is a great question. I bet the Hyper pistons are better in controlling expansion and keeping the motor quiet for all the daily drivers out there. There is a debate over in an STi forum about their pistons being forged or hypers, looks like some Jap spec motors had OEM forged slugs, and maybe a few Euro performance makers too. I dont think US drivers are ready for loud forgings. Vette, Acura and someone else runs very high compressions on pump gas, wonder what they are running?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-06-2008, 12:53 AM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

A hi ratio ...in a stock motor ?

Anyone care to guess what make and model OEM(not hi performance) vehicle used a CR well over 11 to 1(11.6 I believe) ...and the vehicle being able to use 86 octane pump-regular ?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-06-2008, 09:56 AM
dgc333 dgc333 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pembroke, MA
Posts: 773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet67a1f View Post
All OEM motors ? ...I was not aware of that. But if they are so great .... why then do the 3 motors you mention NOT use them ? And what type pistons do these motors use? .... a plain cast or forged ...or even custom forged?

Just curious ... how many motors from the USA OEM in the past say 30 years ... have used a forged piston?
The only other US motor since the 80's that I am aware of using a forged piston was the early Ford 5.0 HO motor but the later ones came with hyper eutectic.

The high silicon content of a hyper eutectic alloy makes them harder so they wear less, it makes them thermally more stable so they can be set up with tighter tolerances which also helps with wear and makes the engine quieter. The strength to weight is better than a forged piston. They are a better choice in every way than a non hyper eutectic alloy cast piston. They are also much less costly than a quality forged piston only slightly more expensive than plain cast. These days the only plain cast pistons available are low compression rebuilder pistons.

On the down side the silicon makes the alloy more brittle so when they do fail they will break where a non hyper alloy cast or forged will distort. They are ultimately not as strong as a good forged piston, a cheap forged likely has little or no strength advantage.

A hyper eutectic piston is an excellent choice when used in the correct application, certainly you could use a forged piston in that application but other than bragging rights it won't buy you anything but a lighter pocket book and a nosier engine.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-07-2008, 03:01 AM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

dgc ...I was unaware of all this. It sounds reasonable.

What are the proper piston-to-wall ...and ring end gap specs ?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-07-2008, 06:53 PM
Ray Bell's Avatar
Ray Bell Ray Bell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dalveen, Queensland
Posts: 3,236
Default

An interesting post on another forum:

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Dulmage
Go ahead and use the KBs KB237..... They are liighter.....

When using KBs there are a couple of things to watch. Number one is top ring end gap MUST be around .030" or there will be trouble. I think .027" is the minimum but that leaves no fudge factor. The top rings in these pistons run hotter and so grow tighter. If this advice is ignored the engine will fail (will break top ring groove).

If this and advice below, which is the manufacturers advice BTW, is heeded it will be a great reliable engine with lots of power.

Also do not get sucked in by the 'we will run these real tight'. 440s need decent clearance because they are big bores and produce a lot of heat. On the box there is a spec. It also says if the machinist can read "for high performance and marine use add 001 clearance." Do it!

They work well. I have used them and the motor turned out great. it was a 440
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-07-2008, 09:14 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

027 to what max ? ... and is the ring placement HIGHER on the hyper pistons than on the OEM cast or forged ?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-07-2008, 10:10 PM
valiant64 valiant64 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ridgecrest,Ca.
Posts: 885
Default

Hypereutectic pistons are great for street or street/strip engines. Their expansion rate is less than conventional cast pistons, so they can be run fairly tight in the bore=better ring seal & oil control. A good quality cast piston can work as well, but when you start running high c.r.'s & using nitrous, blowers or superchargers, thats where they fall short in the durability department. Most of the hypereutectic pistons are also lighter than regular cast pistons, so this is also good for performance. Most of the problems associated with cast pistons has been due to errors on the part of the person installing them incorrectly. This is how bad rumors get started about good products. A good forged piston is obviously the strongest & lightest, but usually they require a looser fit=more noise & oil consumption. Forged pistons are also the most expensive, and only a serious build requires them. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-07-2008, 11:09 PM
bobr bobr is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ontario/California
Posts: 1,002
Default

I would never use a hypereutectic piston but I would also never use a welded crank. You want quality pay for it but busting someone's balls because they are suggesting parts that are completely in line for the kind of build you are contemplating will only lead you to not getting any future advice. -Bob
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-07-2008, 11:22 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobr View Post
I would never use a hypereutectic piston but I would also never use a welded crank. You want quality pay for it but busting someone's balls because they are suggesting parts that are completely in line for the kind of build you are contemplating will only lead you to not getting any future advice. -Bob
WHO is busting-balls ? ...
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-08-2008, 07:30 PM
bobr bobr is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ontario/California
Posts: 1,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by namvet67a1f View Post
WHO is busting-balls ? ...


"ME not know what I am doing ? ....you AIN'T gonna' get in-my-head with this BS of yours ! "


Not the kind of response I would likely be fond of hearing. Remember he said you may not know what you are doing not that you don't. He and many others have had great luck with this type of piston so he was probably just offering a suggestion as to why you may have not had a good experience. There are steps that must be followed to insure a good service from these pistons. I consider them low budget pieces only but I feel the exact same about welded cranks. -Bob
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-08-2008, 07:50 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

If you POST a quote like that post the WHOLE post.

This guy "attacks" me without any type of provocation at all. Just LOOK at this guys profile .... that his "occupation" is "farting and pissing in your face" ...

You might approve of that ..IN your face ... but most people do not.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-08-2008, 08:42 PM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monrovia.Calif.
Age: 60
Posts: 719
Default

Alright....Lets get back on topic.... Cause I'm a dumb azz and need to learn something...
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-08-2008, 09:50 PM
namvet67a1f namvet67a1f is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: nw lower MI, TN, FL
Posts: 743
Default

Yeah R H ...how is YOUR welded crank ?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-08-2008, 09:57 PM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monrovia.Calif.
Age: 60
Posts: 719
Default

Have not had one brake yet...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Welded 308 Heads Dirt Track Dodge Circle Track Chat 1 12-10-2001 02:00 AM
Eagle 'RB' 4.15 Stroker Crank VS. MP 4.15 Stroker Crank VS. Welded Stock Steel krownman Performance Talk 5 03-04-2001 11:47 PM
The New Eagle Crank VS. MP Crank VS. Welded Stock Steel Crank krownman Performance Talk 0 03-03-2001 09:26 AM
Welded Stroker from Paul's Crank Shop Streetwize Performance Talk 5 01-12-2001 05:11 AM
welded stroker crank B/RB moparking Performance Talk 1 03-23-2000 03:56 AM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .