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  #1  
Old 06-12-2008, 04:04 AM
rr69half6bbl rr69half6bbl is offline
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Default msd trouble

Okay gang, this is first time messing w/ msd set up. I did a motor or a guy m-code runner.440-6bbl auto. It had the 6al box, blaster 2 coil ,and pro billit dist.. I put in a 509 purple cam, 2.14 valves. installed a cloyes roller at 0 degrees. The carbs are worked. 73 jets center, 65`s outboards. no vacume pots w/ progressive linkage.
It has a miss and rough running at idle. But above 2 grand, it comes out of it and runns geat. I ran total timing at 30 deg. I installed insulated and grounded wire leads for dist. then ran their 8.5 mm wires . Im getting 140 ohms, from the boot end to the tang in the cap for each wire.I installed the larger dist. bushing for more initial and less total timning as per mopar perf. due to the grind on the 509 cam.now it runs worse. both t idle and through mid range into top end. am now running timing at 16 total as per inst. on bushing kit. ran it at 30 just to see and ran like crap. better at 16 but still not good. Put new plugs in theyre black and sooty except 1,2, 5,6 theyre semi clean.
I hate go fsast crap. just as soonjunk the box and go electronic, but the guy wants the msd. I changed the coil, no effect. then the dist. no effect. i feel its the box, but id feel bad getting another 250.000 box and it still not fix it. Any helpuch appreciated. thank you , Doug
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2008, 05:28 AM
darktone darktone is offline
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try it without the msd and see how it runs.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2008, 10:12 AM
bobr bobr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr69half6bbl View Post
Okay gang, this is first time messing w/ msd set up. I did a motor or a guy m-code runner.440-6bbl auto. It had the 6al box, blaster 2 coil ,and pro billit dist.. I put in a 509 purple cam, 2.14 valves. installed a cloyes roller at 0 degrees. The carbs are worked. 73 jets center, 65`s outboards. no vacume pots w/ progressive linkage.
It has a miss and rough running at idle. But above 2 grand, it comes out of it and runns geat. I ran total timing at 30 deg. I installed insulated and grounded wire leads for dist. then ran their 8.5 mm wires . Im getting 140 ohms, from the boot end to the tang in the cap for each wire.I installed the larger dist. bushing for more initial and less total timning as per mopar perf. due to the grind on the 509 cam.now it runs worse. both t idle and through mid range into top end. am now running timing at 16 total as per inst. on bushing kit. ran it at 30 just to see and ran like crap. better at 16 but still not good. Put new plugs in theyre black and sooty except 1,2, 5,6 theyre semi clean.
I hate go fsast crap. just as soonjunk the box and go electronic, but the guy wants the msd. I changed the coil, no effect. then the dist. no effect. i feel its the box, but id feel bad getting another 250.000 box and it still not fix it. Any helpuch appreciated. thank you , Doug


Your total timing should be 34-36 not 16. Problems like this are rarely the fault of the box. Most likely there is something wrong with your tuneup. I have been using MSD exclusively for 25 years and I've NEVER had a problem. I'm not saying that there has never been a bad box but I would look everywhere else first. If you can't figure it out you may want to invest some money at a chassis dyno shop. -Bob
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:31 AM
rr69half6bbl rr69half6bbl is offline
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Thank you for the replies. On the 16 total timing, msd, and mop.perf. both recomended less then 18 deg. on the crank, due to the bushing change, have you used the bushing and 509 in your motors?
Im curious as to what the deal w/ the cam is that it needs the bush. I wanted to change the ign. over to electron. just to bypass the msd and see if it was the box or whatever, I have the parts. But the guy didnt want me to change it. He said fix whats there. I asked him for his old point dist. I was going to bypass it that way with a lead off the bat to the coil . But he junked the orig. one back in 01 when he had the box put on. he just drives it, doesnt know how it works. even basics are chineese to him.
Hes taking it to the 01 installer. I just was hoping that it was something simple to save him paying this guy to tear his wiring apart.I had run the crank timing up to 30 deg. bob, when it ran like crap at 16. it still didnt run right. Ill post the findings of the other guy when i hear from him.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:45 AM
aarracer aarracer is offline
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I believe Mopar reccomends up to 35 degrees at 2000 rpm. And I think reversing your jetting to 65/66 center and 73 outboards would come close to solving your problem. The plugs say you are flooding it, and it clears up when you give er the wille. I ran the 509 and idle mixture control becomes crucial with this type of lift. If you don't have rpm control at the mixture screws, I would also look there, as this is your total fuel control to about 2500 - 3000 rpm.

AARRACER
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:26 PM
bobr bobr is offline
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I think there may be a bit of a disconnect with what you say your timing is. Total timing is the sum of the initial and centrifugal advance. If you use 20 initial then you use 16 more dialed into the weights/bushings for a total of 36. The larger bushings allow for less centrifugal advance so you can use more initial. The spring's weight determines how fast the advance comes in.(The lighter the spring the faster it advances) I agree with AArRacer that you probably have carb issues. -Bob
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:36 PM
crisser crisser is offline
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I agree with AAR and Bob. Check out what they stated. And, also check out the balancer. How old is it? Might want to check to see if the timing mark hasn`t moved.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:06 PM
aarracer aarracer is offline
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rr69half6bbl

While you are at it, I found the 509 requires a 3.5" power valve to get the center carb close for mixture purposes. Of course you will put a vacuum gauge on to test manifold vacuum first?
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2008, 03:31 AM
rr69half6bbl rr69half6bbl is offline
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awsome, thank you gents,I talked to the guy today that did the first install.Told him what was happening. hes gonna work o it this next week.

Him and I didnt hit it of too good. Ill tell the car owner, that Ill rejet the carbs. and do a vacume check on it this weekend. before the other guy gets it. then maybe put the old bushing back in the dist.
Bob, thanks, for the timing tip. I understood total timing as the crank timing, and initial as the dist. weights. so if I want 35 deg. tot. timg. then 16 from cent. then set crank timing at 19 deg?
ive always worked on street cars. theyre electronic, you set the crank mark at 15 deg. and you beat on it w/ no hassles. this is my first round w/ go fast parts.Im thank full for all your tips. Ill keep you posted on my results. Thank you all again. Doug
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2008, 11:52 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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2 bucks says it is the reluctor clearance, .008.
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2008, 03:22 AM
rr69half6bbl rr69half6bbl is offline
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ty pishta , il check that when i do the carbs.I think ill put the old bushing back in it too, see what I get with that. The car ran good when i got it to redo it. All I did different was the bigger cam, and carbs. went from an isky 505 lift to 509.
The 01 guy ran the coil wires through a seperate ballast resistor,other then the charging 1, then mounted it on the base plate on one of the carbs. The ins. said forthe billit dist. dont use the sep. ballast. Also ran the 12 volt leads to the fuse block, stuck the bare wire behind the fuses in 3 spots. teh block actualy had melting marks from the wire arching. I ran all the leadds to a circuit board with 1 lead from the batt.used 30 amp pull fuses.
this is why 01 guy and me didnt hit it off to well.
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