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  #1  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:21 AM
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cageman cageman is offline
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Default 85 318 roller cam?

I just stubbed a 71 dodge pickup with a diplomat stub. I also threw the 318 in there. What cams can I choose from for this roller motor. Does any one make a cam for this, would be nice to reuse the roller lifters. Nothing special, just want a little something, it purrs like a kitten now, dont like that.

Oh I smashed the lean burn, that was fun. The whole reason I think the car was taken to the junkyard, the car was so nice, but who wants a 4 door diplomat. Had nice tires, dog dish caps too, and 15 by 7 rims. They look good on my 71 shortbox. Cant wait to drive this truck with the stub in it.
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:00 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I believe you could just use cams meant for the newer "magnum" engines, for example Hughes engines has got several grinds. That engine should also have 302 heads, bigger intake valves, port bowl and widening the port at the pushrod bulge should make the engine work very well.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:07 PM
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I beleive the magnum cams wont have a provision for the fuel pump encentric. I would just give crane or comp a call. I have a dippy teen in my charger that still has the factory roller in it very low lift,not much duration,no top end even with 2.71 gears & lock-up trany, but milage is ok for a heavy car.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:16 PM
DonCarr DonCarr is offline
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I think the valve lifters are drilled at a different angle on the magnum block so the cams would not be interchangeable. Not sure though.

Probably best to get the cam reground or just throw in a new hydraulic or mechanical cam + lifters + pushrods. Rollers are expensive new.

'85 may still be non roller with 302 heads. Could have flat hydraulic cam if you haven't checked. I have an '85 truck engine with 302 heads + flat tappet.

'85 was a transition year.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2008, 02:46 AM
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Hmm, could be I guess, I dont know yet, intake is still on it, just trying to see what my options are.
Regrind it, never thought of that.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:35 PM
70AARCuda 70AARCuda is offline
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magnum and LA are lifter are at the same 59 degree angle..

you use a magnum roller cam...if the cam has journal 2 and 4 drilled for oil feeds for the heads....and will need fuel pump extention from hughes if you want to run a mechanical fuel pump...
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2008, 04:50 PM
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Is that fact, kinda spendy to find out to not work, I know of the fuel pump add on for the magnum, as I almost put a magnum in another truck I have, but decided not to.
I have never called hughes, maybe I should. This is new territory for me, but Im cheap, so I am also looking for a good deal.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2008, 02:58 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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The lifter angles are the same. You don't necessarily need the holes drilled in to the # 2 and 4 cam journals, you can groove the cam journal instead for continuous oiling. Try some .040" wide and .030" deep groove, that should be enough. But first check that you really have a roller in there.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2008, 10:18 PM
DonCarr DonCarr is offline
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Default Is $120 cheap

Think I've seen reground LA hydraulic rollers on ebay for about $120, core included (no need to send a core) with a reasonable performance grind. (Predator ???)

Reuse roller lifters
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2008, 03:55 AM
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Sounds cheap to me.
I am putting a turbo on it, just one, I know I probably need two, but we'll see how that goes, I am lining up the parts right now, I scored a plymouth laser with a turbo and intercooler, wastegate and all the little fittings, as I have the whole car, kinda was plopped in my lap so to say. I know I should have two of them, but Im a learnin on this one, so well see. Kinda curious. i read a deal where a guy put boost pressure to his fuel pump to help the mechanical pump overcome the boost, I for the life of me cant figure out where a fuel pump is vented, but I also really havent looked. That was where he said he put it, in the vent. Makes sense that it has a vent, but I dont recollect seeing one ever.
This is going to be more fun than a serious deal, cant wait to see what it is like. I am finishing up loose ends on the truck, so maybe thin a couple days Ill start dismantling the laser
Ill have to watch for the reground cams

**update**
I emailed the predator cam guys, they need to know what cam specs this cam has to see what they can do, cant go bigger, only smaller, but I suppose the duration can be changed, takes two days to do it, so I could have it back by next week. I hope to hear back from him today yet, and Ill go pull the cam tonight, and send it off tomorrow.
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2008, 09:34 PM
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Cageman, if you want to use the roller 318, just insatl the roller and go. You can get a roller for a LA no problem, just make sure the gear needed isn't a bronze unit.

Comp, crane and Huges have these abiltys in getting the gear right cast iron instead of bronze. You'll need to call whom ever to make sure this is done and then you can get any spec you want.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2008, 01:36 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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If your 318 is carburated, I highly doubpt that it does have a roller cam. The Laser has got a 2000 cc engine, capable of turning 7000 rpm and produces 11 lbs of boost at 6000 rpm. What it means is, that in the 5.2 litre 318 that turbo is all done at under 3000 rpm. With a small turbo in a big engine, you can't get rid of the exhaust heat, and you have a good chance of melting down the engine very soon, the exhaust side of that turbo is way too small for any 318. Good luck with your experiment, I'm pretty sure that if you ever get a hold of it, you will not be disappointed. At least we haven't so far with our twin turbo C-body boat. http://www.kuvia.1g.fi/kuvat/Tapahtu...4/MOP_8048.jpg
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:02 PM
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So by running one manifold into a turbo, which is on a 318, 5.2 liters, divided by two equals 2.6 liters, isnt that close enough? wont that add, or does it still choke down and create to much heat. I was looking at the laser and it has about the same size exhaust pipe as the 318 has.
Would two of these turbos be better, but then it would make to much power right. That would kill the 318 in a hurry, I just want it to be something different, rat rod like.
I have a total of maybe 300 dollars into this whole deal so far, and it runs very good. Transmission seems good. The most expensive deal on this project so far was the borgeson u joints to connect the stering, as I have 120 into those two. I am also putting rear discs on it tonight maybe, depends if I find the rotors I need off of an explorer.
I am thinking of making a header of my own to hook the turbo up in a good spot, but I dont want to melt the motor down, so now Im rethinking this whole deal.
And why wouldnt it have a roller cam, they all did back then, I have scrapped maybe ten of these 318's over the years, they all had roller cams. I have never seen a fuel injected diplomat either, all had those stupid carbs. The ones with all the wires all over, because of the lean burn.
The best part is the car had 3 catylitic convertors on it, that right there is paying for the exhaust work, as they are 80 bucks a piece. another bonus. This si the truck I stubbed the diploamt front end into and am doing all the rambling on here of stupid crap i want to do with it, the guy I bought another truck from threw it in on the deal, but it was to nice to scrap, so stupid project time is here. Ill have to get a current picture of it, this was when I picked it up.



The white four door behind it is getting a cummins put into it next, I bought a 94 cummins, 5 speed four wheel drive. Ill be cannibalizing all those parts out of that and putting it into the 67.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:55 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Give it a try, I didn't think anyone would use a turbo on just one side of the engine adn can't really say wether and how it would work or not. Now put one of them on to each side and... have fun for a while. I believe the roller cams came at the same time as teh TBI fuel injection, but Iäm not too familiar with the 80's and later mopar V8's, so that might be false information. Those diesel trucks are awesome, especially slightly "tuned".
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:59 AM
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Well, do you think it would work only having one turbo?
The truck has 3.91 gears and 28 inch tires, it is bellerin' on the interstate at 65 mph. I dont have a tach in it, so I dont know what rpm it was turning, I was just watching for cops as I dont have any exhaust on it or floorpans yet, so I was highly illegal, but I was just dieing to drive it. The auto tranny shift so fast, it is in drive at maybe 15 mph, maybe even less, I dont like that. I suppose the tranny was setup for 2.94 gears. It shifts one two three all in a maybe two seconds, at a little over idle.
I lined up the exhaust to be done next monday, so If I decide to turbo it, I have to do it now. HMMMMMMM

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  #16  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:53 AM
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I would give it a try, using the turbo on one side only. It propably can't make much boost that way, but even 4 psi would make a difference. Have you already solved the fuel delivery /boost reference problem? I believe perhaps adding more line pressure or tightening the kickdown rod adjustment might help your shifting problem.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:12 AM
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I second the idea of kickdown linkage being the shifting problem. I had a 318/727 combo ina truck that did the exact same thing. This was before I knew how important the kickdown was on a 727, so I left it unhooked when I cahnged carb/manifold, thinking I would just have to shift down manually if I wanted to stomp on it while in drive. I was waaaaaay wrong. Mine shifted just like yours, being in drive almost instantly. I was too ignorant at that time to realize my kickdown was the probloem, so I just left it unhooked and shifted manually all the time.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2008, 04:21 PM
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I never touched the kickdown linkage, it is all as is from the diplomat. The only thing I touched there was the cable to hook up the gas pedal, but all that entails is pulling a little clip and sliding the cable off and putting the new one on, all the other linkage is on its own. I was thinking it thinks it still has 2.94 gears, is there something in a trans that mechanically tells it when to shift, like a spinning weight or something, or am I confused with a gm trans.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:12 PM
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If I put a turbo on it, is it going to affect the power brake booster, as they need vacuum, and it will be under pressure now? or am I over thinking?
The one vehicle I put power brakes on and it happens to be the one I want to put a turbo on too. LOL
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:07 AM
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Yes, there is a "shift governor" inside the tail housing attached to the tail shaft with weights and springs. There is not much you can do about it without affecting all the other properties too. John Cope racing trans have governor sets for differetn full throttle rpm shifts. The thing is, that the governor weights work against trans line pressure, and the kickdown rod adjusts the pressure. There is an adjustable basic setting in the valve body, and the kick down handles the rest with an automatic valve body. Therefore, adjusting either the kickdown or the basice pressure setting will affect the rpms where teh trans shifts.

You are most likely not braking while under boost; just put a one way valve in between the brakebooster hose, and you should be ok.
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  #21  
Old 10-10-2008, 03:40 PM
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YOu turbo one side and youll end up burning out 1/2 of the exhaust valves and also disrupting the entire intake system as your overlap on the restricted side will be pressurizing the common intake manifold and your cylinders will go lean real fast if your car even stays running. Youll need a turbo cam with a small overlap and youll need to plumb both exhaust logs into a Y pipe and run that into your turbo, a big one or a big waste gate. 2 would actually be easier feeding a carb hat and a blow through carb like the turbo T/A's,or were they draw through.. as big POS as they were.
And a regrind can change almost everything except lobe centerline. Duration can be changed slightly and lift can be raised/reprofiled (or more precisely, the floor can be lowered) at the expense of a smaller base sircle so new pushrods are going to be needed.
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2008, 04:36 PM
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I was kind of figuring on new pushrods, but I need to keep it running long enough to get exhuats put on it, so maybe next week.
I have a 69 pickup that has a slant six in it, maybe this will be my turbo truck. It has manual brakes, along with easy routing of the turbo piping. I am not going to waste this turbo, but the more I learn about turbos, the less I want to do the v8 truck, I need two to get it done right, then I need better pieces in the motor to make it last.
Thanks for the tips guys, I appreciate it.
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cageman View Post
I was kind of figuring on new pushrods, but I need to keep it running long enough to get exhuats put on it, so maybe next week.
I have a 69 pickup that has a slant six in it, maybe this will be my turbo truck. It has manual brakes, along with easy routing of the turbo piping. I am not going to waste this turbo, but the more I learn about turbos, the less I want to do the v8 truck, I need two to get it done right, then I need better pieces in the motor to make it last.
Thanks for the tips guys, I appreciate it.
Hell yeah, now you are talking. That 6 is still minimum 1.5X of the 2L motor but will never see 6000 RPM. So 4500 is going to be the theoretical max of the turbo, but if you think of the flow numbers that the slant head has compared the the hemi style head of the Conquest (is it a cross flow head?) and youll probably be in the same ballpark. And that Turbo sitting right in front of the carb, its a natural! So are you going to do a draw through (easier) or a blow through? That will be a torque beast from 2K to 4.5K, keep the gearing so cruise will be in that ballpark. And you can always "hybrid" the turbo by putting a larger impeller in it as lots of people do.
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  #24  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:47 AM
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whats a draw through, never heard of that before?
Does it suck fuel and air through the turbo? that doesnt seem right. I dont know what Ill do. whatever is easiest I suppose.
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2008, 09:56 AM
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exactly. like a blower, you mount the carb on the inlet of the turbo. Carb hat is easier. but then you have jetting issues and fuel pressurization issues, but minor.
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  #26  
Old 10-13-2008, 01:48 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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If doing it the simlest way, I would build a draw through. You need a decent sized carb for best results, don't want a big restriction on the suction side of the turbo. Building a draw through system nowadays is kind of a taboo, but it works and is the easiest to build.
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