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#1
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alternator advice
Hi folks,
I have been reading around but am having trouble finding the best choice of alternator to upgrade my charging system. I have a '72 charger with a 440 ci engine. I want to try to keep the pulleys (v-groove, stock) and brackets and just upgrade the stock alternator to something that can give me 80-100 Amps for my electric fan, etc. I have seen mention of ND alternators fitting, but don't know the model numbers. I have also tried to get an upgrade kit for my stock alternator, but they didn't have what I needed. So, the question is simple: How do I upgrade the alternator as cheaply as possible without bracket and pulley changes? I would appreciate any help! thanks, Tdaver |
#2
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No matter what you will need bracket changes, and you will definately need to add a wire and do some others differently.
The ND is a good alt, find one off of any newer Dodge, like a 90's pickup, they are externally regulated, you just use your stock regul;ator, real simple, but you must add a wire from the alt to the battery, dont use the oem wire on your car, as it will melt, and new wiring harness will be needed. I would also bypass the ammeter, use the old alt wire and hook it to the relay for the starter, the post where the pos batt cable hooks too. this way you double your vehicles wiring, by using two wires instead of one. You connect the two wires that hook to the backside of the amp guage together. The one side already hooks to the posst I described above, so now there is two. I have used 10 si alts, ND alts, and the chrysler alts, I prefer the 10 or 12 si, as they are cheap to rebuild, are one wire and pulleys are easy to find, the ND v pulley is hard to come by. The ND alts get real spendy to rebuild, and are tricky, A monkey can rebuild a 10 si. On the 10 si I use a head bolt and a spacer to bolt the one side, and I cut a factory slider apart and weld it at a diff angle to get the adjustment. To make a junkyard one a one wire, you just run a short jumper to the + post from one of the tabs in the voltage regulator, or you can by a one wire v reg, your choice, either way works, but the one wire ones tend to be lazier I have noticed, at an idle they arent quick to respond lights being turned on, you have to excite it by picking up the throttle, then it will adjust its power output. Here is an old pic of my Valiant, it had a ND on it, it was internally regulated, but was to small, it came off a John Deere tractor, I use it on my race car, that is why it has a big pulley, it was a temporary deal, it has a 12si now, 100 amp. I made a simple flat bracket for it, I basically traced the stock one and cut one out of a 1/4 inch piece of aluminum with a jig saw. Here is a 10si on my 70w100, I dont even have a slider bracket on it, it has been this way for 10 years, I basically just bolted the one side to the head. Got lazy and called it good, hasnt given me a problem, but I probably should do something with it, but the truck is basically a toy, so no wories, although I have driven it all across SD and ND, so I should really get the lower bracket done. You can also see the red jumper wire that excites the reg, on a GM, this basically ran to the welded splice in the wire harness that powers everything, I just simplified it. The other tab on it is for an idiot light on the dash that lights up when it isnt charging anymore, no need for that unless you want it, thats what it is for. This alt is maybe 40 amps, and it is showing signs of heating up the factory alt wire, I need to bypass this one too. It is getting really brittle. I have been rewiring all of my old trucks lately. I have a 180 amp ND alt on my Diesel. spendy alt, $$$$ |
#3
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wiring, etc
Hi Cageman,
Thanks for the advice. I have already done the rewiring. Used 10 gauge wire directly to the starter relay post and eliminated the ammeter. I just need the alternator. I am sorry to be such a novice, but I don't know what a 10si and 12 si alternator are.... Thanks, tdaver |
#4
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They came on GM cars and trucks, I think from early 70's to 80's A 10 si is easy to identify, as it has a metal cooling fan, a 12si has a sleek looking plastic/metal fan. Internally they are kinda the same, but the 12si has more windings and a higher output.
Sounds like the wiring part is done, thats good. Now all you need is a wire from the alt that is decent sized, dependant on alt output. I wonder how a 10 or 12si would fit on a 440, the nd is a odd shaped alt too, but I know there are brackets out there for sale to bolt them on, so they must fit. I just have not done it, My 440 truck has minimal wiring, and uses the chrysler alt still Here is a picture of what Mancini sells. |
#5
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Take a look in the tech archives. There is a complete thread about upgrading to a a more current ND alt that can be found on the newer MOPARs. No real bracket modifications are required. You just need an older GM pulley and then grind off the inner lip. It's a pretty simple swap.
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#6
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You can run an electric fan on a stock alt. if you want to, with no mods. Been doing that for years. I would bypass the ammeter though. That's a fire hazard just waiting to ignite.
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#8
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440source.com
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#9
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I mounted
A Powermaster 80 amp unit. No hassle with pulleys, brackets or belts, and it looks like the original. Very good current output at idle, and peaks at 90 amps at high RPM. About $200.00.
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#10
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I like the MOPAR/ND unit as you can take to any auto parts store (down time is less than a day), if it fails. The powermaster must be sent back for exchange (down time is close to 2 weeks).
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#11
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info
Hi folks,
Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I had an old alternator of the revised square back type. I rebuilt it and found a bad diode. So, now that it is fixed, it seems to be able to run the fan and engine at idle, but without much left over for anything else. I will probably just bite the bullet and get one of the ND models. The link for the brackets was really useful. |
#12
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Charger Dan, got pictures of your 130 Amp setup?
I have the 130 Amp Denso alternator from a newer truck, and got a nice fitting deal grove V-belt pulley that fits close the the case, but the Denso alternator is so thick it hit the cylinder head when tring to mount in the stock location (with Brodix B1 B/S heads.) Anyhow, I have to make a new alternator mount to mount the alternator lower for clearance. FWIW, this alternator came with the output connector which was wired with 8-gauge wire, and it takes a special connector to connect the field wires to the regulator. |
#13
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As no one can be bothered to go to the thread that I mentioned, here it is - http://www.moparchat.com/forums/show...t=61642&page=2
DK also provided a few pictures http://www.moparchat.com/forums/atta...1&d=1036258195 http://www.moparchat.com/forums/atta...7&d=1036274179 http://www.moparchat.com/forums/atta...6&d=1036274338 |
#14
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installation images
Uploading some installation images. Hope this works . . . ( and helps )
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#15
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additional details
did this swap back in november '02.
here's what i recall: 4 gauge lead from alternator output to starter relay on firewall. 125A Mega-Fuse placed in above circuit; also mounted to firewall. 1/8" fabbed spacers for water pump and crank pulleys ( to maintain belt alignment w/Dodge truck pulley I used ) hope this helps. |
#16
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Thanks, That is a tight fit with the stock heads.
I will just make some new mounts to put the alternator near where the fuel pump used to be. The new engine is using Victor heads this time and not the B1 heads. With the extra alternator output I may install an electric water pump and radiator fans. |
#17
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Quote:
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