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  #1  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:08 AM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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Default Please help!!!! if you know cams!!!

I want to know if a 226/226 on a 108 will be too much to run power brakes in a 371 smallblock. I have the 3000 stall, 3.91 gears, over 9.5:1 cr, so everywhere else I'm all good. Rpm airgap, the works. Want to step up from the crane 216/216 on a 110 cam in it now, could also get a 223/223 on a 112 but think I won't even hear it, don't know! Want to feel and hear it! Want a real step up from the energizer, this car gets driven around here and there, with my kids too, so abilty to stop is important! don't want a low rpm mishap. What is the biggest I can go for power brakes? 226 on a 108 may leave me in trouble, according to some, but others who I trust also say I'll be fine! Will someone please tell me how I can know what will work among these or similar choices? I want a single profile in the 222-226 range. Please help!!!
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:40 AM
75-440shorty 75-440shorty is offline
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Default Cam/brake

Have You Considered A Vacuum Reservoir Set-up, I Have Run Several Vehicless On The Street With Mild To Wild,have Had Good Luck With Power Assist Using Vacuum Can.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:45 AM
valiant64 valiant64 is offline
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The best thing to do is to call the mfrs. of the cams you're considering & ask their tech guys if the cam will pull sufficient vacuum to run your power brakes. Definitely not something you want to take a chance on if you're gonna run power brakes!
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:04 AM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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I wouldn't mind a can, but was told they are not good in traffic situations... but if thats not true then thats an easy fix, aint it? Heck yeah. The cams I like are made by isky... The 270 mega is good, and the 280HL is awesome, and then howards and elgin too have good economical cams that will fill the bill. I have spoken to the mfr.s in many cases and usually get a sales pitch insted of real tech and want advice from those who run them every day!
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:19 AM
TK TK is offline
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Uhhh......... I would think it would be OK, whats the rest of the specs?
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2009, 03:23 AM
TK TK is offline
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I run this cam, on a 390, the power brakes work great, it has a stock converter, and is in a 74 one ton dually.

# Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276
# Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 226/234
# Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .494/.513
# LSA/ICL: 110/106
# Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
# RPM Range: 1800-6200
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2009, 04:24 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Vacuum canisters are good, but if you have to hit the brakes hard twice, like 5 seconds apart, brakes might not work the second time. Had that happen on my Cuda, so went to non power brakes with Wilwood discs up front. But my cam is a 254/258 Crower mechanical roller. Your duration doesn't sound to bad, so my bet is you will be okay with a vacuum canister.
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2009, 04:26 AM
TK TK is offline
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I don't have a canister.....
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:20 PM
aarracer aarracer is offline
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I've run Mopar's 284/484 and 292/509 with power brakes for years and have had NO issues. It's in the tune-up
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:40 PM
Century Cp Guru Century Cp Guru is offline
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I ran A 292/509 is A 340 Around San jose and The Power brakes were bad Its the Overlap that gets ya, Mike The Goy you Might Wanna Ask Is Bob Gromm At Gromm Racing Heads on Stockton ave.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:42 PM
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It will be fine.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2009, 08:51 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I agree with Fox.

I have a 244 @ .050, plus .500 lift on a 108 and bumped to 106 on install without issue. Not that it's a huge vacuum maker and not every foot push is the same...........But I never had a panic issue with it. I drove it for a year or so.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:08 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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A vacuum canister for around $100 is cheap insurance.
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  #14  
Old 01-13-2009, 03:02 AM
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john briggs john briggs is offline
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We have a vacume rule on our dirt car, ended up with a ton more cam than your showing! We have to pull 16" at 1000 rpm.

Call Bullet cams, Olive Brance Miss.

Tell them that john From Vinylworks told you to call...

Big power, great price, won us a track chapionship this year!
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:59 AM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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I spoke with Reed cams today and found a 223/228 on a 110 from the street brute series, its a BH276DP. The price for c&l is 199.00 and I think it is a good choice. 470/480 lift. With factory rockers we all know that the actual lift will be around 455 or so, but I'm not gonna go roller till I can get the good ones. I did speak to Ultradyne and found a screamin 226 profile that I would love to run, but at 175 for the cam only it will be out of my price range, I am on a tight budget, much like the rest of us, right? So I was impressed by the red duster they sponsor and think they have a good product. I'm thankful we have the web to research and find all these deals!
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:21 AM
passing you passing you is offline
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with a max of 238-241*@.050 and a max of about 58*-60* overlap or 110-112cl you should be able to pull around 12+ inches of vacuum.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:03 AM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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So the next cam up from reed is a 228@.050 280 adv. 480 lift on a 110. 60* of overlap right there. Should be a real ripper street cam!
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2009, 10:17 AM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
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Mike....Go a VooDoo cam....It will give you better vacuum with great performance.


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  #19  
Old 01-18-2009, 02:57 AM
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Good advice and answer Hog.
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2009, 11:09 AM
crisser crisser is offline
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Or a XE series Comp or Ultradyne. The Voodoo and XE Comp are based off of the old Ultradyne lobes. They are short seat time, fast ramp and asymetrical lobes that will give more vacumn than other lobes for a given duration @ 050.
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2009, 12:34 PM
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FYI for everybody, the Comp XE line is nice, but the HI-LIFT versions take advantage of the .904 tappet, not the standard XE cams.
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2009, 04:44 PM
stroker mike stroker mike is offline
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worried about the .525 lift there. and my CR. XE274 might work. The reason I chose single pattern cam is in the cam section of hot rod's horsepower handbook. the old 268h grind made more power than the xe268 at all power levels up to 5500 in that particular test. And my tech friend Richard from Isky cams recommended a single pattern as well as racer brown! What a delimma! LOL!!
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2009, 08:36 PM
valiant64 valiant64 is offline
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Port flow of a particular set of heads can determine whether a dual pattern cam is needed or not. If you notice on most any dual pattern cam for Chrysler wedge motors be it small or big block, that the exhaust dur. & lift #'s are bigger than the intake. If a head already has good exhaust flow, a single pattern cam can make more power than the dual pattern cam. If you haven't already, read the article on the Isky website regarding dual pattern cams that was written by Richard. Pretty informative reading that for some reason doesn't seem to exist in the tech articles of some of the other cam grinders that are all on the dual pattern cam bandwagon. Isky has been around for a long time, and I've always had good luck with their products & have received good advise from their tech dept.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:25 AM
crisser crisser is offline
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Heads that flow in the 80 to 85 int/exh ratios can generally get away with a single pattern cam.
That being said, it will make a difference on the exhaust system being installed as to the real effects the engine sees on exhaust flow. So, running a single pattern with open headers at the track is gonna be different than running a full system with headers or a full system with manifolds on the street.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2009, 09:38 PM
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Love those last two posts!
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  #26  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:42 PM
DonCarr DonCarr is offline
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Just ringing in to support the single pattern comments. This is supported by David Vizard info I've read. Mopar used dual pattern because of poor exhaust port. 350's get away with the single pattern.

The other area is lobe separation. Vizard narrows the separation when the heads are a greater restriction. So say, a 318 may use 110 separation, a 360 - 108 and a 408 stroker 106 separation - all using the same heads. A stock 318 could likely use 106-108 separation because of lousy flow but 110 with ported heads. These numbers assume max output and single pattern cams. Not necessarily what one wants.

The closer separation increases overlap, where gases leak out while both valves are open. Creates more low end power, lower vaccuum, lumpier, but the more civilized 112 separated cams can handle more compression to restore power while maintaining good vaccuum and sound. Tough to know trade offs. Not sure what happens to fuel mileage.

---------------------------------------------------------

If all the above sounds complicated, it is. Hughes Engines is likely king in this area. They know the 'dynamic' compression requirements of Mopars. I think you want one of their smaller 'muscle car' cam grinds, but it will likely cost as new springs are required and their stuff isn't cheap.

HUG HMC2336 AL-7 (107 centreline) 223,236 @ 0.050 .512,.518 lift (Lower with factory rockers - works with stock valve arrangement) Meant for 8-8.75 compression. Not sure what your 9.5 changes.

Good luck.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:06 AM
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Good post Don
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  #28  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:23 AM
RacerHog RacerHog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroker mike View Post
worried about the .525 lift there. and my CR. XE274 might work. The reason I chose single pattern cam is in the cam section of hot rod's horsepower handbook. the old 268h grind made more power than the xe268 at all power levels up to 5500 in that particular test. And my tech friend Richard from Isky cams recommended a single pattern as well as racer brown! What a delimma! LOL!!
Scott Brown cam....He will put you right in the ball park if you give him enough info of what you are trying to do....Great stuff....

If you go the Isky cam...better be on your game with the combo...On room to fug on that one....


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  #29  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:47 AM
DonCarr DonCarr is offline
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Default Lord Dulcich test

Found an actual test of lobe separations by Steve Dulcich on a 350.

Three cams were ground at 106, 110, and 114 separation. Lobes were 230/235 0.489/0.507.

106 LSA - avg 347 HP - peak 433.7 HP - vacuum 8.5 in - cranking comp 167 psi
110---------- 345.7---------434 -------------- 9.6 ------------------ 160
114---------- 339.5---------428.5------------- 11.4 ----------------- 156

Question came up - what if the 114 LSA cam was bumped up a point in compression ? Cranking compression would likely go up to the 167 number and power nearly equal, having smoother idle and better vacuum.

They had a summary chart LSA Recommendations

Detonation tolerance---- Wider
Cranking Compression---- Narrower
Max Torque------------- Narrower
Max HP----------------- Combination specific
Broad flat torque curve-- Wider
Higher rpm-------------- Generally wider, assuming good flowing heads
Lower rpm--------------- Narrower
Poor heads-------------- Narrower
Great heads------------- Wider
Nitrous------------------ Wider
Blower------------------ Wider
Idle quality-------------- Wider
Fuel economy------------ Wider (was in article elsewhere)

This is all very confusing, because ultimately one could go with a 114 LSA, choose larger lobes and raise the compression even more.........................AAARGH............... and fuel economy prefers Wider LSA............tough call

The 350 above likely had ported heads to confuse matters more, stock heads would show greater gains with small LSA than ported heads.

Your cam choice sounds good to me, but, Find an expert !

(I've even heard from one head porter that says he has run large cams at 13:1 compression on pump fuel in a street car by polishing and edging the chambers)
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
(I've even heard from one head porter that says he has run large cams at 13:1 compression on pump fuel in a street car by polishing and edging the chambers)
It's possible to run very high compresion ratios with stout sized cams on low centerline numbers to bleed of low speed compresion. Total timing and how it comes in is a factor as well.

The polished chambers and piston tpos are a strat and coatings help along the way.

This is not how I would do things myself.
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