200+cc port volume smallblock heads???

[powerdodge]

just about to order heads & pistons for the 408 stroker and have a q for the heads! building for aprox 500hp with hughes 237\242 or 242\246 @ 050 bumpstick.

the heads I`m leaning toward is the mopar performance aluminum-heads for 318-360.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR...Q5fCarQ5fParts

I believe the 170cc portvolume is too small for the stroker.

does it exist some bigger small block heads that can reach 300cfm and have a price less than $8-900 each?

thankyou!

[rampage_82]

Well the Indy heads may be just a tad out of your price range at $2095.00 for the pair assembled.. However they would be what you're looking for... http://www.indyheads.com/images/t_pge/360_tech.pdf

[jmemoli]

If you are interested , I have a set of magnum style edelbrock heads off my stroker, with 50 hours on them . they had port work done by shady dell , and are in excellent condition - call me at 9083436645 - they have around 176 cc intake runners and flow 255 cfm at .550 " lift -

[Cudafever]

I wish they had a part ### but I'm pretty sure that they are P5153850 Commando head (standard port) MPP also makes a Large Port Commando head P5153849.........Every thing is interchangeable on the standard port head and the large port requires w2 rockers and shafts (utilises standard intake and and exh/ header

I'm thing, the 360-1 has to us the Indy intake manifold......maybe it s W2 intake design.......I don't know.

If i don't get my J head full port job, i was leaning towards he either the Indy 360-1 or the large port commando.........Maybe a LA Eddy?

powerdodge how high do you plan on revving this Stroker?

[powerdodge]

HI! thanx for great info!

hmmm...I have to consider the indys seriously....
and yours too jmemoli...

this would be 98% street engine, so 6500 would be the redline.

looking at the ford 408, it seems like most of them have heads in the 210cc area, and there are alot of strong ford-strokers out there...

[DartGT66]

Comparing cc's between different engines ports is totally worthless. It's pretty much worthless even between different heads for the same engine. Even small length differences can change the port volumes 10's of cc's. for example, one head uses a 4.5" long valve and has no short side, the port turns directly from the valve to exit and it has lets say 210cc's. The other's got 5.5" valve and a high short side and has 220 cc's. So you could assume that the second head is beigger, while in reality it may have smaller cross sectional areas and better velocity. Same with raised ports; does it have to use a wider intake or spacer, or is the width built in the head? In stage VI's, the spacer needed is already 40cc? Or if you compare forexample a BB B1 and Indy 440-1 head. The Indys have a max wedge port window, which is about 30% bigger than the stock factory port window. They also have a longer valve, deeper bowl and a raised port with the width built in the head. The port volume is 50% bigger than even in the stage VI aluminum or Edelbrock RPM style heads. Then the B1, intake port cc's are about the same as in the Indy 440-1's. However, the port window is actually 30% bigger than in the Indys. This is because of different valve locations, intake face angles etc. so, looking at teh port cc numbers only really can't give you much information about the velocity of the port.

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by jmemoli

If you are interested , I have a set of magnum style edelbrock heads off my stroker, with 50 hours on them . they had port work done by shady dell , and are in excellent condition - call me at 9083436645 - they have around 176 cc intake runners and flow 255 cfm at .550 " lift -

How did you "convert" the Magnum head to fit the LA block.

What heads did you replace these heads with?

[powerdodge]

Originally Posted by Cudafever

How did you "convert" the Magnum head to fit the LA block.

block oil-passage in block and oil through the pushrods...

well, I agree in the cc does not tell anything of the velocity, but maybe it can give me a guide for big or small port.. after some research, the alu-magnumheads show little difference...
small : 171\77cc
large: 176\75cc

what I really lookin for is a port with an area of 2.0 sq. inches...
thats the size the 408 want for maximum air-speed through the port @ 6400rpm.
the magnum-heads are made for 318-360. I believe the port is a bit too small for a 408...

btw, I found some w2s @ a great price, so w2 it is!

[Cudafever]

Chry does make a W9 that has, that kind of intake volumes......and will fit on top of a stroker.....special (sp) intake sp exh. sp sp valve train........the final draw back would be that the valve are cut in the head at a different angle(would require sp (custom) piston.

Personally, I thing, any aftermarket head would work grate for a street, under 6500 eng........remeber, when the ports get TOO BIG you loose bottom end.

Unless you plan have a 4500 stall converter(vary bad converter for the street) i would stay a way from heads like the W9 and like...........

W9 (59*lifter angle(LA)) has a "200" cc intake runner and 290 CFM @.600 lift, out of the box!

any of the aftermarket heads (eddy, Indy 360-1, commando(standard or large port) or Econo W2) will out perform a stock J or even a X head, and should be a good performer for the street.

Just my O2, have vary little to back up my statements

[Cudafever]

I thing W2 is a good choice

remember that i take a w2 intake and w2 rocker arms and shaft to finish it up!

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by jmemoli

If you are interested , I have a set of magnum style edelbrock heads off my stroker, with 50 hours on them . they had port work done by shady dell , and are in excellent condition - call me at 9083436645 - they have around 176 cc intake runners and flow 255 cfm at .550 " lift -

How much are you asking for them heads and what comes with it???

[jmemoli]

Daniel , sorry I can not private email, as I just joined this board -
The edelbrock heads I have have are for magnum style (relies on oil through pushrod ) , and have hughes dual springs (140/340 #s ) - I ran these with a 228/234 cam with .560 lift - The heads are also ported by shady dell with chamber work, and lots of exhaust work, and a trick valve job by them . Call me at 9083436645 if interested -Actually the entire engine is for sale -I dont want to post it here as its the wrong place .MP 4" crank, SIR rods , probe forged 030" pistons , 2002 block , etc ..
jerry memoli my emai is jjmemoli and thats at gmail .com

[Century Cp Guru]

B1/baheads might be the ticket.

[passing you]

1st you need more camshaft [dur@.050] for the hp/rpm goal then the 2 mentioned.imo

W2 is the best head mentioned yet for the stock LA block.

Eddys are a joke and are basically just an aluminum LA head that cost too much, they are also thin in the ports.

185-190cc port volume would do you good.

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by passing you

1st you need more camshaft [dur@.050] for the hp/rpm goal then the 2 mentioned.imo

W2 is the best head mentioned yet for the stock LA block.

Eddys are a joke and are basically just an aluminum LA head that cost too much, they are also thin in the ports.

185-190cc port volume would do you good.

What cam would you us with his 6500 rpm goal?

What heads do you like................good to know about the Eddys

[passing you]

cam dur @ .050 in the 250*'s lift in the .550-.580 w/106-108cl

A poster on this topic was offering shady dell ported eddy's that flow 255 or something at .550 'I think it was' and my home bowl blended x heads on my 340 flow 242/185cfm@28 depression and my J's home ported with a harbor freight grinder 'not even polished' flow 270cfm @ .500
SO that makes eddys just aluminum replacements in my eyes.

[BigBlockDude]

IMO Edelbrocks are still much better than an iron head. I wouldn't say they are a joke.
You have the ability to run more compression with pump gas, have a quench area, and save a ton of weight.

[passing you]

OH no doubt, the aluminum is lighter and closed chambers hamper detonation, have good quench area along with the aluminum's heat transfer and such, so no joke in that area.
Just when they cost $1400+ and are advertised as high flow.......
BUT,
At the same time I will find other ways to lighten the car, buy quench dome pistons choose wisely on a cam w/ the high comp and use iron heads any chance I get.

[passing you]

There are a lot of people lately saying to go aftermarket on things that don't need replacement for they're app. just reconditioning/massaging.

rods,heads,cranks, all mopar and all better then the rest of their time and then some.

we are not chevy guys where our rods are bent and twisted and snapping like twigs so no need to buy aftermarket.
Reconditioned rods w/arp's cost me $160

cranks -unless your going stroker no need to change steel go's 9000rpm w/block oiling mods, cast around 7500rpm w/ good balance.

heads- I have $110 in a grinder & carbide cutters and $847 in the heads machining+parts=$957 after tax and they flow better than big block heads and most 'out of the box' & slighty mod'd aftermarket heads.

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by passing you

cam dur @ .050 in the 250*'s lift in the .550-.580 w/106-108cl

A poster on this topic was offering shady dell ported eddy's that flow 255 or something at .550 'I think it was' and my home bowl blended x heads on my 340 flow 242/185cfm@28 depression and my J's home ported with a harbor freight grinder 'not even polished' flow 270cfm @ .500
SO that makes eddys just aluminum replacements in my eyes.

Thanks for you cam sugestion.

I have a dyno Sim. and have been using a flat tappet cam(one of the cam files that came with the program) for comparisom with different heads. It is a 260@..050" .555 lift
A couple questions here, It shows the int cl at 106 and the ext cl at 114 and the cam lobe Center Line at 110.

What cl do i use for your 106-108?

and with this cam installed straight up.......Is it advanced ????? or retarded????.......and by how much.....4#? and if it 4# Is it because of the difference between 106(int) or the 114(exh) compared to the 110 or am i completely confused here??????

Sorry about all the question here, Just trying get a better grip on this

[fox]

Originally Posted by BigBlockDude

IMO Edelbrocks are still much better than an iron head. I wouldn't say they are a joke.
You have the ability to run more compression with pump gas, have a quench area, and save a ton of weight.

You must run more compression with aluminum heads because of the dissipation.!!!
Quench is a great thing!

[passing you]

Originally Posted by Cudafever

Thanks for you cam sugestion.

I have a dyno Sim. and have been using a flat tappet cam(one of the cam files that came with the program) for comparisom with different heads. It is a 260@..050" .555 lift
A couple questions here, It shows the int cl at 106 and the ext cl at 114 and the cam lobe Center Line at 110.

What cl do i use for your 106-108?

and with this cam installed straight up.......Is it advanced ????? or retarded????.......and by how much.....4#? and if it 4# Is it because of the difference between 106(int) or the 114(exh) compared to the 110 or am i completely confused here??????

Sorry about all the question here, Just trying get a better grip on this

I was giving a guide line to start, and that was the cam center line, you can advance it 2-4* if you want as long as it jives with your rpm/piston position/application.
If your gonna make big power turning 6500+ w/408 you will want the 106 cam center line.
Better have good compression with cam center lines/dur@ in the 250's+ .

And on your question on the valve opening events add the 2[106+114] together, divide by 2 and =110 cam center line, so @.050 intake opening your at 106 crank rotation etc......

[passing you]

so your 4* advance BTW.

[Cudafever]

Thank you "passing you"
That has alway confused the shit out of me!!!!!

When its a 110 110 110......well of course the cl i 110 just couldn't figure it out when they were different.

I was giving a guide line to start, and that was the cam center line, you can advance it 2-4* if you want as long as it jives with your rpm/piston position/application.
If your gonna make big power turning 6500+ w/408 you will want the 106 cam center line.
Better have good compression with cam center lines/dur@ in the 250's+ .

Yeah, thet was just a cam i choose to compare different head flow number from Shady Dell site to see what was best for what I'm trying to do.(using a Eng Dyno Sim program)
I'm begining to thing i will start out with my 474/280 MPP that is in my 340 now or maybe a the .508 Hyd..........or maybe i will still change to mechanic with something in the .550 range

Still haven't decide exactly my game plan. BUT all of this sure help a lot ........OK OK, I'm way to old for that one.......But i still like it

[passing you]

I thought about the old 296* 110 .557 lift MP solid for my 410 but settled on a custom version of the engle KV-3 .573 lift .

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by passing you

I thought about the old 296* 110 .557 lift MP solid for my 410 but settled on a custom version of the engle KV-3 .573 lift .

Who was you cam grinder, and how much did it cost?

[passing you]

http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113829

I talked to chris at engle and had him change a couple of things.
Above is the setup/spex.

[Cudafever]

I just finish reading you thread................so did you ever get the valve back cut......and have the head re flow tested??????

[passing you]

I haven't had the time yet but will and maybe I'll experiment with different angles, and maybe multiple.
I have ground/coned the press in guides out of the exhaust bowl and raised the roof another .015, also finished the bowls [got rid of the cast lines and rounded the bowl contoured the bowl where it meet the roof] =6hrs
so the #'s outta be better.