Stay stock or Aftermarket...440 Street/Strip Build

[66cornet]

I am rebuilding the bottom end of my 440 AGAIN and always appreciate the input I get when I ask for suggestions/comments. Currently I have a stock crank and rods with KB Hyp pistons @ 0.030 over, with a small shot of spray...like 150hp. I hurt a piston so I atleast need to buy one so I think I might upgrade to forged slugs to save my azz.

Here is the question. How much can I expect out of my stock rotating asembly before I should think about upgrading my rods and/or crank. I run the car at the strip quite regularly and would like spray it safely @ 150hp. I'm zero decked and would like to keep comp. ratio@ 10.5:1 to 11:1. I've entertained the thought of girdling the bottom end but not sire if its necessary.

I am trying to get the car back together cheap but strong..two words that don't go hand in hand.

[passing you]

no need to girdle and those piston generally work fine with that much nitrous,
Timings critical though....

Though the rods will probably hold up and have so far consider h beams.

But from the sounds of your post rods aren't the issue, yet, pistons are so look at ross,wiesco, diamond pistons.

Kb's are good but I would lean towards running the KB 'forged' line for repeated continuous dragstrip nitrous use.
What's funny is if it were a bb chevy you would have tossed a few rods by now and destroyed the crank.

So have you cc'd these heads to know chamber size and do you know exactly why you melted the piston?
lean?timing?

[dave5711]

I dethink the hypers and the spray are the issue.

forged and you should be ok.

What sort of et's does this car run?

[cudabob496]

I stroked my 440 to 496 and make over 600 hp. Just made sure I went to studs on the main caps.

[63Fury]

You already burnt one piston so move up the the forged. If you have the extra cash go with the nitrous style that puts the rings a bit deeper on the pistons. With only 150 HP of spray you should be just fine with plain forged pistons stock bottom end and rods. Use good bolts on the rods and mains. When I first started getting into using N2O a friend told me two good rules of advise. One, if the 150 HP of spray calls for a .065 fuel jet then bump that to a .075 or even .080. Run the fuel side rich, it will cost you some HP but will save your bottom end. Rule 2 back the timing way off to start, they say 2 degrees for each 50 HP of N20 but I would start with 3. So if you are normally all in at 36 degrees and want 150 HP of spray back it down to 27. Now if you can hear it ping (I can't hear spark knock on mine as it is to load) back it down another 2 or 3 degrees. The only reason why guys cook the engine on nitrous is to much timming or two little fuel. If you can't hear if you have spark knock make a run then read your plugs. If they are black and sootie lean it out a bit. If they are clean and look burnt richen it up some.

You just have to be carefull with the spray, keep it rich and back off on the timing and you will be OK. I would rather spray 150 HP and loose maybe 10% HP by being to rich then run it two lean and smoke the engine. Think about it like this I would rather be able to run an additional 125 HP all day then run 150 a couple times then rebuild the engine.

[Cudafever]

Originally Posted by 63Fury

You already burnt one piston so move up the the forged. If you have the extra cash go with the nitrous style that puts the rings a bit deeper on the pistons. With only 150 HP of spray you should be just fine with plain forged pistons stock bottom end and rods. Use good bolts on the rods and mains. When I first started getting into using N2O a friend told me two good rules of advise. One, if the 150 HP of spray calls for a .065 fuel jet then bump that to a .075 or even .080. Run the fuel side rich, it will cost you some HP but will save your bottom end. Rule 2 back the timing way off to start, they say 2 degrees for each 50 HP of N20 but I would start with 3. So if you are normally all in at 36 degrees and want 150 HP of spray back it down to 27. Now if you can hear it ping (I can't hear spark knock on mine as it is to load) back it down another 2 or 3 degrees. The only reason why guys cook the engine on nitrous is to much timming or two little fuel. If you can't hear if you have spark knock make a run then read your plugs. If they are black and sootie lean it out a bit. If they are clean and look burnt richen it up some.

You just have to be carefull with the spray, keep it rich and back off on the timing and you will be OK. I would rather spray 150 HP and loose maybe 10% HP by being to rich then run it two lean and smoke the engine. Think about it like this I would rather be able to run an additional 125 HP all day then run 150 a couple times then rebuild the engine.

I'm not a NOS fan At All!!!!!!!! But, if you are...........THERES SOME GRATE ADVICE RIGHT THERE^!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[passing you]

If you don't look into this stuff beforehand you shouldn't be juicing in the first place.

Ditto good info for those looking to get funny with their engine.

[wilks3]

How much lower E.T. or how much faster are you with the 150HP shot?
At this point doesn't seem worth it for what it cost. I'm not bad mouthing NOS
use, just the amount. To me if your going to spray, then SPRAY!!!
Set up engine for at least (to me) 300HP or better.
For me, if I was going to build a stompin' ,snortin' Mopar......I'd start with at least 500c.i 800HP, Lenco shifted, 4 link rear, put your eyeballs in the back of your head car.
But then my wife says I tend to go too far sometimes.

[Zach H]

Look at 440Source.com they have kits their that seem strong. I think the whole kit pistons, rods, crank, and all bearings and rings come balanced and ready for $1800.00. I want to get one for my 383 in the next few years.

[cudabob496]

I opted to build a stroker big block over going NOS. I just don't have the money or time to rebuild my engine everytime something goes wrong and I burn up a piston or something. Some little solenoid fails to work, and you burn up your engine. Not worth it!

[63Fury]

The best thing about nitrous on a street car is that you can build a good strong engine with forged pistons, plain old steel heads, run a fairly mild cam and have great street maners. Like a nice lumpy idle but not trying to stall all the time of fighting the converter. Then when you want to HP you hit the button, that is an instant 100 to 250+ HP gain and if it is done correctly you will not smoke your engine. I did a ton of reading before messing around with N2O and after learing what/why/how it works I think of it like a turbo or a blower. Think about it all three have the same purpose, to get more oxygen & fuel in the cylinder. The more oxygen and fuel the more power your engine will make. The differance it the turbo and blower do it with mechanics and the N2O does it chemically. I will not debate which is better and why as each as its benifits and pitfalls. We all make compromisis, build a 10 second street stomper and you will loose drivability. For some thats ok, other it isn't. Like it or not N2O is the cheapest HP your money can buy AND it helps to level the playing field for the guys that want to drive there cars every day and still kick a little a$$ at the strip, without having to build a $5000 stroker engine.

[passing you]

I wonder 'if' and how many other sites he's asked this same question.......
Will he ever come back?lol

[66cornet]

passing you- I did not recieve email updates that said I had so many replys to my post. I thought I only had one so let it ride for a while...I guess too long.

Here's the short of it all. I never sprayed the car last year...or ever. I lost a pushrod after an adjuster nut backed out on me
(second time this happened-so I'm buying new adjusters)....then I popped a lifter...causing oil pressure loss and creating a knock in the bottom end.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT DETONATION.......when I pulled the heads off I noticed #5 cylinder had a spot of detonation on the right side of the piston. Not sure why it happened but it did.

So now I am going to put the bottom end together like I did the top end when I first built this thing. I have the spray all set to "squirt" but never had the chance. I figure if I am going to build a decent street driver where I can spray it once in a while at the track...I'd like to do it smart and build it strong enough to handle my needs. I really can't afford to rebuild this thing for another few (3 or so) years and my wife will probably divorce me if I tell her at the end of this season that I blew another motor. I would rather spend a few extra $ now and feel good when I squirt it.

BTW-I ran a best e.t of 12.28 @ 110 mph. Never had a chance to "tune" it

[passing you]

Got it, well the price difference is what $100-150 to go forged?
Do it.
cheaper then divorce.

For you I still say the hyper with the CORRECT ring gap/mixture/timing would be fine for that much & often but not worth a divorce!

[cudabob496]

Isn't it expensive to fill an NOS bottle?