roller lifters

[wheels2]

I drive a 451 RB Duster my friend runs 360 LA Demon. Both are thinking about going to a roller cam. We both talked to Comp Cams and got told the same thing, both RB and LA had to have machine work done.

"Even though COMP Cams® roller lifters will work without oil system or lifter bore modifications, it is highly recommended that on any racing engine the lifter bores be modified. This will ensure that in the case of a pushrod failure and the lifter coming out of the bore, adequate oil pressure will be maintained. The proper procedure for this modification can be found in any of the materials available directly from Chrysler, or any top engine builder can perform this modification."

When I ask for a translation he said bush lifer bore and grind or machine block for lifter bar clearence, Please explain this to a retired Electrician.

[Rich Kinsley]

From another retired electrician, LU441 Orange, CA & LU 22 Omaha, NE, I think the deal is that the bar that ties two lifters together to keep them from turning needs extra clearance or it will rub the block possibly. Also I think these lifters may be smaller diameter than ours and need to be bushed to reduce the extra clearance in the bore. Our Mopars have the biggest lifters of any which allows us to have a steeper ramp on the cam without binding. We can have more livable radical cam designs. This is my best guess:-)

[bulldog426]

dang, so that cam swap i was kicking around in my head is gonna be harder than i thought!! so basically for me to do it to my engine i would have to tear the motor down, and grind it, and vat it to get all the metal and all out...

[rampage_82]

You would just have to see about the link bar hitting. The big blocks are pretty straight forward in switching to Roller lifters, the small blocks can get tricky. You didn't say whether it was mechanical or hyd. Rollers you were wanting to go to though. If you're talking about Mechanical Rollers the LA's you really need to either bush the lifter bores, or go with copper tubing along the oil galley, because if the cam has very much lift, you will uncover the galley and lose a significant amount of oil pressure... http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/t...all/index.html

[DartGT66]

The older compa cams lifters were solid body, and they did not require any mods in a BB. I know the design had changed some to allow pressurised oiling for teh roller, and I believe pushrods too, but woul still think that they do fit without mods. There are also small block lifters that don't require mods as far as you retain decent lifts, in the low 0.6"s After that you have ot either bush the bores or use copper tubes in the oil galleys. And of course it isn't a bad idea to bush the bores anyway, you can fix the lifter bore locations and angles and retain the oil pressure in the case of failure. But we have used several different roller lifters in BB's without any needs for mods, although if the engine is out the drivers side oil galley is easy to block.

[Rich Kinsley]

Don't get scared off on my account. I'm no expert at all on the roller lifters. I was just throwing out some thoughts there. Get the cam company and/or your machine shop to explain it exactly to you. Most anything can be done with enough effort. The question is whether it's worth the effort.

[peg leg]

If you get the lifter type that uses a spider type anti-rotation fitting, you don't have lifter bars to contend with. I like them, also, because they add zero weight to the lifter assembly. The top of the lifters are machined square to accomodate the spider. Absolutely a better mouse trap!

[cudabob496]

my 496 has a Crower solid roller, and there were no mods to the lifter bores that I recall.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by wheels2

This will ensure that in the case of a pushrod failure and the lifter coming out of the bore, adequate oil pressure will be maintained.

Ask them how this is any different than a flat tappet lifter coming out of the bore.

[rampage_82]

Originally Posted by John Kunkel

Ask them how this is any different than a flat tappet lifter coming out of the bore.

Yes along this same line of thinking, bushing the lifter bores is actually more beneficial to flat tappets than on roller lifters anyways...

[djswwg]

i don't know about the small blocks, but from personal experience in my big block, there is absolutely no machining/grinding/clearancing or anything that needs to be done. this is with a Comp solid roller cam & lifters. i'll be putting another big block together shortly with a Comp hyd.roller cam/lifters so we'll see if there's any mods necessary, but i'll be very surprised if there is.
as for loss of oil pressure if something breaks and a lifter pops out, been there and done that. i had a stock rocker snap in half during a 1/4 mile pass and sure enough the lifter jumped out, which caused oil pressure to go immediately to zero. however i was prepared for such a catastrophe because i have a low oil pressure cut-off switch that turns off power to the ignition and fuel pump if the oil pressure drops to 15 psi. or lower. no damage at all to the engine, i just replaced the rocker and the bent pushrod and fired it back up. the switch is Holley #12-810. personally i never build or install an engine with out one, for me it's just real good insurance so that a small problem dosent turn into a big disaster..........djs

[bulldog426]

Originally Posted by DartGT66

The older compa cams lifters were solid body, and they did not require any mods in a BB.

the 440source roller lifters are like that

[Bob_Coomer]

Bologna....
The big block need a set of 829 Comp Lifters. The will work perfect in a stock RB block. They wont uncover any oil holes etc, these are a solid body lifter etc...
They are pretty good IMO.
I have change these out ever 2-3 seasons depending on how many runs, but I have never had any trouble.
Im talking about running these with spring pressures well over 750lbs over the nose.

You could NOT pay me money to run a 440 source lifter in any of my engines.
If your wanting a good quality lfiter at a affordable price, look at the PBM stuff.
These lifters can be had for under $300 a set and are made by Morel.
here is a few pics of these.
I have not personally run them, but picked up a set to be used on a milder bracket engine down the road.
My machinist has sold literally hundreds of these and has never hd one problem. Most go into Dirt track engines and those things will put more wear and tear on a engine in one single race than wee can do in a whole season of drag racing.
I cant post links but have many pics of these lifters, PM me I can provide a link or email them to interested parties.

[DartGT66]

Here you can see the new design of the comp 829's, they are no longer solid body. However, they still are a "bolt on". http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/829-16/10002/-1

[MrChemist]

I have the comp 828-16's in my 410 stroker. Yes you have to grind in the lifter valley to clear the link bar...took me quite a few hours. The lifters have a full body, so there is no need to bush the bores. Here is a link with a pic of the 828-16.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-828-16/?rtype=10

I don't know the part number off hand, but comp now has a drop in version of this lifter (the link bar was relocated to the front side, so no grinding needed! They also push rod oil). They cost more, but I would say are probably worth every penny to avoid the frustration of grinding out the lifter valley.

FWIW, I have also heard of folks taking Howards solid roller lifters and installing the backwards (link bar toward the cam)...seems to work for some folks.

[rampage_82]

Ok well I know about the solid body, but are the rollers covered, because that is sometimes a problem with the uncovering of the oil gallery.. Sorry I just looked at the picture, and yes they are mostly covered, so there you go... Although the copper tubes are a really reasonable solution as well...

[Cudadrag]

[QUOTE=Bob_Coomer;800937]Bologna....
The big block need a set of 829 Comp Lifters. The will work perfect in a stock RB block. They wont uncover any oil holes etc, these are a solid body lifter etc... QUOTE]

Do you have any reason why this would not be true for a B-Block 400/451?

[bulldog426]

Originally Posted by Bob_Coomer

You could NOT pay me money to run a 440 source lifter in any of my engines.
If your wanting a good quality lfiter at a affordable price, look at the PBM stuff.
.

i aint had no problems with 440source stuff yet there's a guy running a mid 6sec rail running a 440source bottom end it's on their website, plus i've seen him at i think it was baton rouge dragstrip, he lives not too far from me...