Big Block Build

[cudabob496]

Interesting Mopar Big Block Build (505 cu in) in the new Popular Hotrodding. Used an old stock 440 block!! I think they could have gotten themselves another 100 horsepower fairly easily with a choice of different components. As it stands, they only got 615 horsepower with a 12.5:1 compression engine. Heck, with pump gas (they used race gas), better heads, no Edelbrock dual carb setup, and a better cam (more duration), easily another 75 horse.

But it is a good article as far a maybe learning some new stuff.

PS They used Chevy connecting rods!

[rampage_82]

Hey do they have the article online yet? If so can you post the link? That doesn't sound like a super great build, I mean a lot of people get more than that out of stealth/rpm heads and 10.5.1 compression and flat tappet camshafts... Which may be what they did???

[cudabob496]

Originally Posted by rampage_82

Hey do they have the article online yet? If so can you post the link? That doesn't sound like a super great build, I mean a lot of people get more than that out of stealth/rpm heads and 10.5.1 compression and flat tappet camshafts... Which may be what they did???

havent' seen it yet.
they used a hyd roller I think.
all in all, looks like a really poor build to me!

[rampage_82]

Yeah but you know that Popular Hot Rodding, goes with the theory of (Chevy= great, anything else = sucks), if you get a real Mopar person, they can get well over 700 out of a stock block and a good combination of parts...

[cudabob496]

I agree. I think the guy was supposed to be a Mopar guy too! It may look cool, but the Edelbrock Dual Quad setup for BB Mopars is not known for power!!

[cudabob496]

What an insult!! In the same magazine they build a 434 cu in Ford, that puts out 675 hp on 91 Octane gas, and 11.5 CR. In this case, they use correct parts. For the Mopar engine, they use crapola!!! Popular Hot Rodding owes us another build with correct parts!!!!!!!!

[bulldog426]

yep for a 500+ cube wedge 600hp aint that hard to do even on my 502 with 10.75:1 compression with iron heads was dynoed at 620hp 600tq, "well not my exact engine but another engine the builder built identically" and with 12.5:1 compression, some indy heads, super victor intake with a dominator, maybe add some alcohol definately should be over 700+

[Bob_Coomer]

Originally Posted by cudabob496

PS They used Chevy connecting rods!

That was a smart thing to do, dont you think? Going to a 2.2 journal rod kills many, many birds with one thrown stone.

Like dropping in a 4.5" stroke crank in a block that has Not been machined or notched.
Saving of and lots of rotating weight
Opens up a huge market for rods sizes, and lengths.
Anyone who builds a new motor and doesn't take advantage of the 2.2 rod journal and .990 pin, simply put is not thinking things through.
(Unless this is a heavy NOS engine, or Forced induction I see no need for the large wrist pin either.
Many years ago when the 4.15 stroke cranks first came out from Eagle, back then you didn't have a half dozen vendors carrying every stroke option you can think of. It came with the stock rod journal's etc.
It is a hassle to notch bores and grind on the internal pickup to get the crank to turn in the block without interference.

Who was the writer of this mag Article?
If it was Andy F, I can tell you the engine intent filled the bill. The engine done exactly what it was intended to do. If he wanted to build a engine that would make 800-850HP and meet a certain goal, he would and has done just that.
But back to the Rod sizes.
I recently built a Hemi engine using these light weight parts that had a 100cc dome that came well within 100 grams of a similar built wedge engine.
The wedge was a 4.44 bore with a 4.5" stroke Indy Maxx block engine for my dragster. The pistons were custom Diamonds that IIRC had a small dome (under 20cc).
This is amazingly light for a Hemi engine. Also note the Hemi piston had a .060+ larger bore that added some extra weight too.
So now I have a 572" hemi that has a much lighter rotating assembly than a stock 440 does.
This not only makes the engine a bunch more likely to break things.
Here are some engine building notes for those who like data from these two engines.
\Hemi 572 CID (2.2 rods and .990 pin, I beam rods)

Rod (big end) 537.1
bearings (CB-743 HN) 48.2
------------------------------
Total rotating weight then 1175.6

Reciprocating Weight
Rod (small end) 238.9
Piston 761.9
Pins 150.2
locks 4.7
rings 58
------------------------------
Total reciprocating weight
1213.69

Total Bob Weight 2389.29

OK here is the 557" 4.44 bore x 4.5 stroke. Also uses 2.2 rods, and .990 pins.This one however uses Common H beam rods.

Rotating Weight
Rod (Big end) 581.1
bearings (CB 743 HXN)
------------------------

total Rotating weight 1257.6


Reciprocating weight
Rod (small end) 253.6
Piston 567.6
Pins 151.9
Locks 4.8
rings 58
------------------------
total Reciprocating weight
1035.9

Total Bob weigh 2298.5

So the diff is the rods, and pistons

H beam rods ----- I beam rods
small end --- 253.6---- 238.9
Big end --- 581.1 ---- 537.1

Thats a substantial diff IMO.

Diamond (custom)
Pistons 1.35CH 4.44 bore .990 pin 557" = 567.6
Wiesco 4.5 bore 1.29 CH .990 pin 572" = 761.9

[rampage_82]

Well all I have to say, is I hope they were aftermarket Rods. I don't have a problem with the 2.2 bearing size, I just see way too many BBC's (and small blocks) with the rods hanging out the bottom... I just think the rod length is too short on the Chebby's for the stroke...

[bulldog426]

but why 12.5:1 compression and 615 hp? something sounds fishy about that, you could do the same with less compression.

[cudabob496]

Originally Posted by bulldog426

but why 12.5:1 compression and 615 hp? something sounds fishy about that, you could do the same with less compression.

my point exactly. Seems like the engine was not thought out well before
assembly. A BB Mopar with race gas and 12.5/1 compression better be up near 750 hp!!

[bulldog426]

Originally Posted by cudabob496

my point exactly. Seems like the engine was not thought out well before
assembly. A BB Mopar with race gas and 12.5/1 compression better be up near 750 hp!!

yep i agree 100%...

wonder if it was one of those jelous chebby guys wrote the article to make himself look better??

[cudabob496]

The Edelbrock dual carbs and intake probably cost the motor 50hp!!
Stick a big fat dominator and a large single plane on it and see what happens!!!

[rampage_82]

Yeah, but look at the publication.. you know the dual carbs look better, so that must be worth 150 hp... LOL

[bulldog426]

Originally Posted by cudabob496

The Edelbrock dual carbs and intake probably cost the motor 50hp!!
Stick a big fat dominator and a large single plane on it and see what happens!!!

yep.... for the 1600+ that setup cost they could've had a nice singleplain with a dominator, and hell with 12.5:1 comp i'd be dang tempted to put that hoss on alkyhol like some vp m5....

[Cudadrag]

12.5:1 is what my 451 has and I found the motor loves E-85 thru a single 1050 HP carb (E-85 metered) on a single plane Victor 383 manifold. I have not dynoed but I would guess easlily 615 horse (more like 650+ to flywheel) Now this is with a solid lift cam but nothing too radical (.580 lift) This is a motor 50+ C.I. smaller. I agree something doesn't add up.