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  #1  
Old 07-15-2010, 12:18 PM
rlaman821 rlaman821 is offline
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Default 440-8

Hi everyone! I am running a 440 with slightly ported 906s, the hemi grind 484/284 purple shaft with a 727 and 3.90s in a Cuda. The 727 is built also.
Heres the question: the carbs are two 600 edels on there dual place intake. Runs great but do you guys think I went too far with the carbs? Oh, compression is Summits six pacs 10.5 and carbs are manual secondarys.
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2010, 12:51 PM
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23T-Wedge 23T-Wedge is offline
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If it runs great and you're happy with it, then "No" you didn't go too far........
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  #3  
Old 07-15-2010, 03:14 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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that dual quad setup for big block mopars is not known for power.
not sure what tranny stall you have, but a 750 Holley DP on an M1 single plane intake will get you at least 30 hp, if not more!
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:04 PM
fat 360 fat 360 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
that dual quad setup for big block mopars is not known for power.
not sure what tranny stall you have, but a 750 Holley DP on an M1 single plane intake will get you at least 30 hp, if not more!
You maybe right(ish),with the carbs,I do prefer holley types,but tunnel rams rule for performance engines,in drag racing applications.
And response to the original question,no way,you did fine,now put more cam in it!Btw,I ran 2 650 holleys on a holley pro dominator on a 318(fairly radical),in the 90's.no drama's.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:09 PM
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bulldog426 bulldog426 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
that dual quad setup for big block mopars is not known for power.
not sure what tranny stall you have, but a 750 Holley DP on an M1 single plane intake will get you at least 30 hp, if not more!
heck just go ahead and throw them 600s on a good weiand or indy tunnel ram, that would probably be another 30 hp or more...
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:48 AM
4HUNTIN 4HUNTIN is offline
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1.6 Rockers will help if you want more lift.
Should lift the valve a little more than the
509 purple shaft.
My 906 ported headed 440 likes them.
10.5-1 comp. also.
Steve
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2010, 02:38 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldog426 View Post
heck just go ahead and throw them 600s on a good weiand or indy tunnel ram, that would probably be another 30 hp or more...
Never used one, but I heard tunnel rams were not good for a street car?
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:42 PM
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JVMopar JVMopar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
Never used one, but I heard tunnel rams were not good for a street car?
I agree. Heck even a single plane for a street car is a pain the the neck. My buddies Dakota I have here has a 9:1 318 with a 340 cam in it, 650 cfm holley, on a M1 single plane, backed by a A-833. Kind of a bear to drive if you don't keep the revs over 3k.
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:58 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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My M1 is totally streetable, but you gotta match it with all the right components, like cam, and stall converter.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2010, 02:47 AM
Cudadrag Cudadrag is offline
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Typically the "Dual Carb" setup was a waste of money because you can get as good if not better (at least quicker performance) from a single carb single plan manfold setup without the hastle of keep them tuned and synced. But if your 440 accepts and likes the setup I say rev it up, open the hood and show them off!

I have not had the best of luck with multi carb setup even with the help of so called experts. Actually been a little jealous of someone who has let's say 3 duece setup and runs great. I agree with 23T.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2010, 06:20 PM
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I've run the M-1 with a Holley 750 DP 4779 with good results. The bottom end is a bit soft. That might be a bonus with street tires though. The really best mild street setup I found though is the Edelbrock Performer RPM. Edelbrock wasn't happy that the Holley vacuum secondary 3310 beat their 750 AFB for power so they designed the 800 AFB just to beat the Holley 750, and it does. Edelbrock discontinued the carb but still sells it in refurb as I think they've gone Chinese since. With the 750 AFB I had to step up the secondary jets one size. The primaries and rods were good. The 800 AFB was perfect out of the box. The only things that matched it were an old Weiand dual plane 7500 with an 850 Holley and the Six Pack with the center card upped one jet size. The Six Pack is for real, although when 2 bbl carbs are measured same as 4bbl carbs it works out to 950 cfm and not 1350 cfm. I used to run the 1966 Corvette 855 vacuum secondary Holley but when it's price went more than twice the 850 DP I went with 850 DP. The original Edelbrock 800 AFB is one of the best street carbs. I ran two small AFB's on a cast iron single plane intake on a 383. Direct Connection used to sell the setup complete with air cleaners.

The original purple shaft Hemi grind came out in 1966. In the late60's Direct Connection had stated the Racer Brown SSH-25 286/485 made more power. In the early 80's Direct Connection replaced the Racer Brown with a new 284/484 cam. A couple of years later a new Hemi grind came out that was 280/474. At that time DC stated the original had 228 degrees at 0.050" and the newer one has 234 degrees at 0.050". The old Hemi grind was 284/471 with 108 degree lobe separation. The Racer Brown SSH-25 was 286/485 with 112 lobe separation. The new DC 284 cam was 284/484 with 108 degrees lobe separation. The new Hemi grind was 280/474 with 110 degrees lobe separation. The old Racer Brown and the newer Hemi grind both make more power than the original 284/471 Hemi grind. There is also a newer 285 cam called a street rod cam that is 284/484 with 114 lobe separation to keep the spark plugs from loading up at low RPM when running on the street. So there has been at least three 284 purple shaft cams.

I like the Edelbrock Performer RPM with the old style 800 AFB. Add a good bolt together fuel pump. It doesn't have to be high pressure. Get a street one. But any of the bolt together fuel pumps are better than the stock pumps. A Holley or a Carter or Edelbrock. With a stock distributor I would remove the heavy spring and disconnect the vacuum advance. The Mopar Performance distributors are setup well. I buy the vacuum advance model but leave the vacuum advance disconnected as the advance springs are already light weight.
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
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I have an old 318poly with 9.5/1 Ross forged alum pistons, a "hot street" cam (264deg/.450lift 222deg@.050 and 111deg lobe sep), 300 stall converter, 3:91 489 SG rear, Mopar electronic, WEiand WPD4D dual quad manifold and a pair of 500cfm Eddy manual choke with all choke mech removed. I also have TTI's and 2.5" exh w/super Dynomax. Now I do believe this is overkill but it has been a lot of fun and do I ever get attention at cruise nights. I have recently, finally, discovered a key to tuning this. I got a Dvorak Machine Multi-carb synchronizer for the 4bbls and it is miraculous how it really settles the engine down. I did a tune with the syn tool at a car show at the Hernry Doorly Zoo in Omaha and everyone couldn't believe how smooth it ran after the tune. To me that is THE trick to get a good multi-carb tune. I've been trying for over 3 years too. Engine response is really heigtened.

One thing about the Eddy's though is that they seem to really transfer heat to the fuel so a good insulating spacer is really a must in my opinion. I built my own from plywood and they are 1&3/8" high and patterned after the swirl torques that I had on before. Those were a waste IMHO because the aluminum also transferred the heat. Now with my wood the manifold is 180deg and the carb is 110deg.. Not bad.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2010, 08:44 PM
rlaman821 rlaman821 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4HUNTIN View Post
1.6 Rockers will help if you want more lift.
Should lift the valve a little more than the
509 purple shaft.
My 906 ported headed 440 likes them.
10.5-1 comp. also.
Steve
Sounds good. Can I get the 1.6 rocker from Summit! Always in the market for more HP.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:02 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaman821 View Post
Sounds good. Can I get the 1.6 rocker from Summit! Always in the market for more HP.
When building my 440, I was told not to use 1.6 rockers.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2010, 06:40 AM
4HUNTIN 4HUNTIN is offline
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Maybe you dont have the piston to valve clearance.
I did.
Not sure where to get them, but dont go too cheap.
My iron headed, hyd cammed stock crank and rods
Ross pistons 3000 lb Demon has many runs with 1.6
Rockers.
10.56 at 127 mph is the best it runs great.
Steve
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2010, 08:45 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4HUNTIN View Post
Maybe you dont have the piston to valve clearance.
I did.
Not sure where to get them, but dont go too cheap.
My iron headed, hyd cammed stock crank and rods
Ross pistons 3000 lb Demon has many runs with 1.6
Rockers.
10.56 at 127 mph is the best it runs great.
Steve
I think it was more a valve train geometry, or stability, issue.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2010, 09:45 PM
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bulldog426 bulldog426 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
My M1 is totally streetable, but you gotta match it with all the right components, like cam, and stall converter.
and also running a 496, a little bigger than a 318...
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:29 PM
rlaman821 rlaman821 is offline
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OK guys heres a new wrinkle. On my dual carb 440, it was putting out a lot of fumes while idling so I ran the idle mixture screws all the way in to shut off the idle circuit on the front carb. Now, seems to have a hesitation but the idle is alot cleaner. Is there any standard procedure for running dual carbs like this. Should I be idling both carbs?
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2010, 11:03 PM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaman821 View Post
OK guys heres a new wrinkle. On my dual carb 440, it was putting out a lot of fumes while idling so I ran the idle mixture screws all the way in to shut off the idle circuit on the front carb. Now, seems to have a hesitation but the idle is alot cleaner. Is there any standard procedure for running dual carbs like this. Should I be idling both carbs?
What type throttle linkage do you have? Solid or progressive? I 'think' you can use just the back for idle on progressive but the front is used also with solid. I have tried both and the solid linkage is the only way I want mine. Progressive sucks! The dyno guy advised me against progressive and I see why after trying it.

Your dedication to carb tune is critical. It makes a huge difference in your driveability. I start with the front carb and run the idle jets out 2.5 turns then with a tach and vac gauge I keep tweaking them till the carb idle creates max vac and the idle feels smoother and usually higher. Then I do the same to the rear carb and go back and forth a few times till it's all settled in. Then I disconnect the throttle linkage and get out the Dvorak Machine carb synchronizer and work back and forth between the carbs to get it all in synch and reconnect the linkage. It's amazing how much better the car runs after this. The synchronizer is the best tool period!

Now don't forget that maybe you don't have the carbs set-up right for your car yet. The dragstrip is a great way to get it right. You aren't overcarbed but remember you are opening up 1200cfm (theoretically) of air into the system so you have to introduce plenty of gas too or you will be lean. I think it's easier to run lean than rich with this set-up. You expect it to be rich and usually overcompensate. I started out 1 stage lean and wound up 2 stages rich as the best set-up.
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  #20  
Old 11-03-2010, 07:22 AM
rlaman821 rlaman821 is offline
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The linkage is progressive. I have a pretty wide band on two and about half way down get the two front to come in then the last 3/4 inch brings in all eight. It is straight out of Summit with the Edelbrock carbs and intake. The secondaries are manual so you can control it pretty well.
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2010, 11:27 PM
mhenesian mhenesian is offline
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Hi rlaman821,

The Edelbrock CH-28 with two 600, 650, or 750 cfm Carters or Edelbrocks makes great torque in a 440 with either the Mopar 284 or Lunati 292 cams. We used one with the Lunati cam and two old (modified) Carter 750 AVS cars. With that 3.91 gear, you're going to burn the tires in at least two gears ! Now, it's true, at the race track a 750-850 cfm holley on a Mopar M1 will out power just about any other combination. But on the street the CH-28 will shock you. Great pull from 1500-5500 RPM, and its not hard to set up at all. Just use the progressive linkage from Edlebrock and the matching dual carb fuel line setup.

Mark Henesian
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
rlaman821 rlaman821 is offline
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It is a blast to drive!! Not like the old days when you could get a run on a Sat. night with some of the other rodders in town. Today there is too much power to use on the street and then there is the law too. Got caught banging second gear in my sons car here in town, a '72 Dart with a 408, and that cop yelled at me so much I couldn't believe it. And I was old enough to be his Dad too! Then he told me to get that thing out of town. All this while my son sat in the passenger seat. When it was all over my son looked over at me and said "some roll modle you are!" Funny now looking back...
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