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  #1  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:42 AM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Default B body suspension items

I'm redoing the 73 charger. Looking at getting:

1) PST polyerathane rebuild kit

2) Lower Control Arm Reinforcement Plates

3) Hotchkis front and rear roll bar, but addco roll bars are a lot cheaper.

4) New leafs springs??? No idea where to start

5) Shocks- No idea either...

What are ya'lls thoughts on this?
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:07 PM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
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I did my '64 with a poly-graphite set-up. I used the big torsion bars, K-Y-B shocks, front manual disc conversion and re-did the rear springs at a local shop. I'm very satisfied with the outcome. I don't think it really matters who you do it with as they all probably have the same stuff. Be sure to get the poly-graphite stuff instead of just polyureathane. With the graphite added they are quiet.

I would not use the biggest torsion bars next time as they are pretty harsh. The K-Y-B's are pretty firm too but OK. I don't have a sway bar but I'm sure they would be a good addition. I think I'd be prone to go with the less expensive ones.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2010, 10:21 AM
peg leg peg leg is offline
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Default I did

The PST bushing kit and anti roll bar in front. They stiffen the ride some, but firm is good.
Did a disc conversion with booster.
Gussetted the lower arms, too, but be sure to cut a hole to reach the bolts that hold the rubber suspension stops.
I put in 0.890 t bars and KYB shocks. Very pleased with it all.
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2010, 09:48 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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So I did some more research and it seems that 73 b body suspensions were a radical change. Therefore hellwig, hotchkis, magnum performance, and CAP are sadly not available options.

So I am looking at getting the following

409$ pst polygraphite super kit minus idler arm

159$ pst front sway bar

143$ 3/4 inch rear sway bar kit from adco. I think I will make a more robust end link bolt plate that spans the inside and outside U bolts that hold on the diff. The plate just doesn't look rigid enough

40$ ball joint socket to keep my sanity

25$ LCA stiffening plate

164$ for Gas-A-Justs, but still pretty torn on shocks. Do these come with mounting hardware?

195$ firm feel fast ratio pitman arm

329$ stage 3 firm feel box

I would really like an adjustable Upper control Arm. But they are sadly not made =(..

So a completely new ride and handling for $1464... just need to figure out the rear springs.
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2010, 07:04 PM
dodger1 dodger1 is offline
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"143$ 3/4 inch rear sway bar kit from adco. I think I will make a more robust end link bolt plate that spans the inside and outside U bolts that hold on the diff. The plate just doesn't look rigid enough"
If you can find a 73-up B-body copcar get the rear bar and brackets, and spring mounting plates with the ear for the bar link. New links/bushings should be available aftermarket. The factory setup mounts the bar to the frame, so the unsprung weight doesn't go up. I believe FirmFeel also has spacers to replace the rubber isolators between the rear spring perch and the mounting plates. I used urethane isolators plus a cop bar out of an 85 Plymouth copcar on my Mirada. Another thing you can do is replace the K-member rubber isolators with solid aluminum replacements from FirmFeel. According to Rick E. at Mopar Action, this ties the whole front end more rigidly and will be the single most effective thing you can do to improve handling. I haven't done it to the Mirada yet, but I will.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2010, 11:22 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Started the project today. Luckily i have a parts car that allows me to prep the control arms while i can still drive my vehicle. So the sway bar kits from pst are adco sway bars with a 20 dollar mark up. Hoping to take my control arms to the mechanic monday to set my ball joints. I am literally and figeratively stuck on removing the lca pins. My plan is to drill these pins and put a grease fitting in them to keep the polyethlene joints quiet. Still got to remove them though...
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2010, 12:03 AM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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I went through this on my old 79 Chrysler 300. A younger brother to your Charger... It also benefits from having the best items ever offered on the late B chassis...

Here are my recommendations:

1) Decide what your main purpose is with the car... Street cruiser, handling machine, drag car, or whatever combination of. This will tell you what your springs and sway bars are going to be.

2) New Rear springs. At the very minimum go with ESPO (espo.com) 5 leaf units. These are the correct length and arch and have a similar rate to the Chrysler 300s, Magnum GTs and cop cars. The rear suspensions are under sprung with 4 leafs and are pretty good with 5. Also, these new leafs will come with a round front spring eye eliminating the iso-crap oval front eye. I'd elect for a poly eye bushing pre-installed and get some poly bushings with some new rear spring shackles. Or elect the 6 leaf 71-72 B-body (higher power motor/more aggressive driving) Remember rear springs should be near level when loaded for optimum handling. Also, get the 71-72 shock plates and convert that to the pre iso setup. Or at least get poly pads.

3) Eliminate Iso-crap up front. Solid K-frame mounts and solid t-bar x-member mounts. Any improvements in the front will be almost negated with the rubber junk in there. SolidBushings.com or Firm Feel for those.

4) Subframe Connectors and other chassis stiffening - just a good idea. Helps eliminate creaks and groans in 30+yo chassis, too. You can never have a too rigid unibody. Racers will seam weld everything that got spot welded. Including the K-frame and unibody. That may be overkill, but hey, if the K-frame is out...

5) New torsion bars. I like the Firm Feel 1.00" bars. These are just slightly heavier than stock GT/300/Cop Car bars. Or go up to the 1.06" probably the heaviest I'd go for a cruiser, probably would be best paired with the 6 leaf springs. Or look for somebody parting out a GT/300 if you're on the cheap.

6) New Alignment. You've probably got at least radial tires, and the 73+ settings aren't really that good. My 300 wandered a lot on the highway.

Camber: -0.5° to -1.0°
Caster: +1.25° to +2.25°
Toe In: 1/8" or .10° to .15°

7) Shocks - Firm Feel sells Bilsteins, maybe they even have them for the Late B. Yeah, they aren't as cheap as KYBs, but a good shock will make a very large torsion bar fine for the street. Modern cars have MUCH higher wheel rates yet ride just as nice. Why? Because they have better valved shocks than what was originally offered for our cars.

8) Front Sway Bar - Try to land the GT/300/cop car bar. Should be a great starting point.

9) Rear Sway Bar - lots of options here. Start with a stock rear bar. Go bigger if you feel you have too much "push" in corners (or "Tight" in oval track terms) Remove it if you feel you're too "loose" (oval track). This gets matched to the front bar.

You also have a good recipe for what your doing. I like the LCA re-inforcements. Easy to do, and worth it if you have them out of the car. The firm feel steering box and pitman/idler arms are also good.

For bushings, I agree, that poly is great everywhere except for the K-frame mounts, and LCA pivot. Leave the LCA pivot rubber because that is where most of your road "noise" gets transferred to the chassis.

Another thing I'd recommend seeing as how you have a 73 Charger, is the 11.75" discs from the 76+ B/R bodies. Great affordable upgrade in the safety department.
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  #8  
Old 10-12-2010, 11:48 AM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Thanks for the solidbushing.com tip. Its greatly appreciated. They are a much cheaper alternative to firm feel. I am hoping to get them for the project.

Bought some kyb gas a justs from mancini and they assured me that they would fit. They are like a foot too long.

Chassis stiffening will be happening this upcoming summer with the front end rebuild. Right now I am planning on restoring the suspension so she handles well and then move from back to front on the car restoration.
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2010, 07:04 AM
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Ray Bell Ray Bell is offline
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Go with Koni if you can get them...

Damping excellence with adjustability and long life.

Don't worry about gas.
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2010, 06:47 PM
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Several years ago I rebuilt the front end of my 69 RR. I used a Kit from PST. I also put in Tubular upper A Frames from Firm Feel. And while I was at converted the front drum brakes to Disc with a kit from SSBC. It took a good part of the summer to do it all. When it was done it made a big difference. The car handled much better and STOPS like it should. This year I installed a rear sway bar from Firm Feel. It went in fairly straight forward and handles even better now.
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2010, 08:28 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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one problem with Koni for the shocks is that the front shocks have been discontinued for a LOOONG time. If you can score some used Koni's you CAN get them rebuilt. That is a plus there. The 73+ front shock is VERY short.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:25 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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so I am looking at the lower control arm pins and they are pressed in really tight. I am going to be putting polygraphites in the LCA and am a little concerned that the pin will not be pressed hard enough into the LCA. Should this be free floating joint? The bushing from moog is very tight and does not seem to spin freely if that is the case.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2010, 09:23 AM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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Wish I could help you on the LCA bushing... That's the one thing I've never R&R'd in the front.

First off, I found that you can cross reference 68-72 GM A-bodies (Chevelle, Skylark, Cutlass) for front shocks. You can now use Eddy or Koni shocks if you want!

now excuse me as I can't reply to PMs (yet)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco9588
A couple weeks ago, you talked about putting larger brakes on the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71solo2challenger
Another thing I'd recommend seeing as how you have a 73 Charger, is the 11.75" discs from the 76+ B/R bodies. Great affordable upgrade in the safety department.
I was wondering if this is a rotor swap, or the whole spindle, caliper, and rotor swap.

I also ruptured my rear piston and was wondering if you recommend a part swap for the rear.
Well, to start off, does your 73 Charger have disc front or drum front brakes?
If it has drum brakes, then you're going to need to grab spindles, adapters, calipers, brake line (well, new of course), Master Cyl, Rotor and prop valve.

very good info on the Mopar Action website (I can't post links yet, either)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Ehrenberg
'73-'75 B-BODIES (Charger, Satellite, etc.)

These cars are also factory equipped with unicast rotors, but they came with pin-type calipers. A change to the larger rotors requires only a simple adapter change (to the ones shown on the parts list) and nothing more. No knuckle or caliper swap is required. The calipers on these cars mount toward the rear of the car.
Ok, so he seems to imply that you already have discs. GREAT!!! To upgrade to the big rotors involves you buying big rotors and the simple method would be to buy the 76-mid 78 pin type caliper adapters (and you can re-use your already installed calipers!) This is the setup I use on my 71 Challenger currently).

If you run out of luck on the pin type caliper adapters you could use the late 78 - 81 Sliders but then you'll need to buy new calipers and brake hose. Not a big deal, but worth noting, especially if your brakes are working fine as is.

Just an added note about the small vs large discs: The small discs are ok in most situations. The large disc does have the advantage in panic stops or if you're hard on the brakes. Either is a great upgrade from drums. I always recommend the big brakes because why wouldn't you want that extra measure of safety when its a car that you pamper and they are factory parts? (Ok, I get the restored car point)

as for your rear problem, I'd just fix it with OEM parts. The 10" rear drums are fine. If you're thinking about 11" drums, the extra weight of that setup pretty much offsets the extra braking capacity.

ok, just my 2¢
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2011, 12:29 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71solo2challenger View Post

2) New Rear springs. At the very minimum go with ESPO (espo.com) 5 leaf units. These are the correct length and arch and have a similar rate to the Chrysler 300s, Magnum GTs and cop cars. The rear suspensions are under sprung with 4 leafs and are pretty good with 5. Also, these new leafs will come with a round front spring eye eliminating the iso-crap oval front eye. I'd elect for a poly eye bushing pre-installed and get some poly bushings with some new rear spring shackles. Or elect the 6 leaf 71-72 B-body (higher power motor/more aggressive driving) Remember rear springs should be near level when loaded for optimum handling. Also, get the 71-72 shock plates and convert that to the pre iso setup. Or at least get poly pads.
I am getting an 8 3/4 to replace the 8 1/4 setup currently. I think I am also going to try to get the shock plates and u bolts in the swap. They are from another 73 b body. So I know I would have all the parts needed for install. However, I would like to eliminate the post 72 rubber insulators. Do I just need 71-72 shock plates, or do I need other parts as well? I do plan on replacing my leafs with new ones. I have seen leaf springs disentigrate in my hands after removal from a car. Maybe some pictures of a 71-72 b body with 8 3/4 would be useful.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:43 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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The 73-74 rear suspensions use the same lower shock plate as the 71-72s essentially. You will need a bushing for your rear end to locate the 73+ perch (1.5625" hole) on the 5/8" dowel OR new leaf pads welded on the rear. Its a much simpler process in the 73-74 cars than the 75-89s to eliminate the leaf pads.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:22 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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From my understanding, I would need 8.75 shock plates because the shock plates are different between the 8.75 and 8.25? However, I could delete the isolation pads by use of a spacer like that found on WWW.solidbushings.com/catalog.html?
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2011, 11:48 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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Shock plates are the same. The only rear that uses different shock plates is a pre-81ish 7.25. You just need the spring perch spacers... Looks like the cpd003s.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:48 AM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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sweet. I have access to a machine shop, so I will probably get some made. Thank you kindly.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:17 AM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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How about going from a 1973 to a 1972 leaf spring. My though is as long as the perch centering pin is in the same location that this should be cheaper, more common, and therefore better. Anybody know what the differences between the two springs?

Im looking at this guy: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4452982/ Pretty much I am going for handling so I can autocross this beast. Looking at 550 ft-lbs automatic with 3.73 gears, front 1 1/8 sway bar, 3/4 rear sway bar, billstein shocks, .92 torsion bar that will get bumped up to 1.00 sometime in the future. Not trying to hook up, but want to handle well on street tires.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:40 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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well, if you go with the mopar "hemi" leaf springs, go with 2 lefts or 2 rights... I think 2 lefts. One had an extra half leaf for the torque of the hemi. That's a drag thing. For AutoX you want the same rate on each side.

The main differences between the two springs (besides leaf count) is the round front eye and a different pin in the rear end.

The main difference was that they changed the perch on the rear end from a 5/8 hole to a 1 9/16" hole. That's why you need a spacer, to properly locate the rear.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:34 AM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Do i need to get different shackles?
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:43 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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When I did this swap on my 79 300, I re-used my shackles (but bought new bushings)
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:43 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71solo2challenger View Post
well, if you go with the mopar "hemi" leaf springs, go with 2 lefts or 2 rights... I think 2 lefts. One had an extra half leaf for the torque of the hemi. That's a drag thing. For AutoX you want the same rate on each side.

The main differences between the two springs (besides leaf count) is the round front eye and a different pin in the rear end.

The main difference was that they changed the perch on the rear end from a 5/8 hole to a 1 9/16" hole. That's why you need a spacer, to properly locate the rear.
For a selection for 2 lefts or 2 rights, am I looking for the stiffer set or the softer set? I think the right side is stiffer.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:32 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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I am thinking about splurging on some sub frame connectors. Before I do so, I think I have two company's with products. It looks like MagnumPerformance has a set of 1 1/4" .095" Double tube bolt in ones made specifically for the 73-74 b body at a whopping 260+ shipping. Competition engineering has square one that is a bolt on application that is made for 66-74 b-bodies that is also powder coated. I did not know that the distance was the same between cross member and rear rails for all those years? This is about 150$.

While I think it would be amazing to do a weld in set, I think that my time is much more limited and I would like to have a running car. Maybe on my future E-body I want to get I will go all out.

Anybody have any experience with these two companies or these specific products? I am a little weary of the range of years they are advertising with the competition engineering product.
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  #25  
Old 04-05-2011, 06:16 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco9588 View Post
For a selection for 2 lefts or 2 rights, am I looking for the stiffer set or the softer set? I think the right side is stiffer.
go with the 2 lefts (6 leaf). A rear sway bar can dial in the under/over steer you want after that. Much better (and cheaper) than going too stiff at first.
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:22 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco9588 View Post
I am thinking about splurging on some sub frame connectors. Before I do so, I think I have two company's with products. It looks like MagnumPerformance has a set of 1 1/4" .095" Double tube bolt in ones made specifically for the 73-74 b body at a whopping 260+ shipping. Competition engineering has square one that is a bolt on application that is made for 66-74 b-bodies that is also powder coated. I did not know that the distance was the same between cross member and rear rails for all those years? This is about 150$.

While I think it would be amazing to do a weld in set, I think that my time is much more limited and I would like to have a running car. Maybe on my future E-body I want to get I will go all out.

Anybody have any experience with these two companies or these specific products? I am a little weary of the range of years they are advertising with the competition engineering product.
In my experience, I'm always wary of a product that fits such a large variety of vehicles. While the 66-72 Bs may be very similar... the 73+ are most definitely NOT!! I'm really surprised the Comp Eng. (Moroso) has that in their catalog that way, but I bought an E-body cage kit from them and it needed more than minor tweaking!

Here's a cool thing about the Magnumforce connectors (or any bolt ons that actually work). Bolt them on, then drive directly to your favorite welder (if you find it beyond your capabilities) and just have them welded right on (save yourself some money if you grind the paint away for him in advance!).

Also, the under the floor variety are generally the second strongest you can put on. The weld to the floor variety are somewhat structurally weaker (wall thickness and cross section come into play here) and I've heard varying stories of how much of a PITA they are grinding them to fit (because tolerances of these cars is all over the place put mildly).

just my 2 cents...
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:43 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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So I called moroso to see what they had to say and he said the length was 45.25 inches in total length. I think I will make some measurements and see if that is anywhere close. I am not terrible at welding, so I will probably do it myself. I may just bolt it in for a while and then weld it a year or two down the road. Mainly the high priority is to finish the job timely, but well. Being a student, this project has taken me about 7 months to work on and I want to drive my car a little bit.
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:36 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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For what its worth, it took me a few hours to do through the floor weld in connectors on a Saturday. Started at about 7, finished about 4 (with breaks). If I had been smart and bought the bolt ons (and kept me lower class legal, too!) I probably could have had it done in under 3 hours with welding only. (fit and weld, vs fit and drill and then weld)
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  #29  
Old 12-15-2011, 12:09 PM
bronco9588 bronco9588 is offline
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So I am going iso clamp delete on the rear differential. From my understanding, I just need the bottom shock mount, the u bolts, and a bushing to locate the differential onto the leaf spring bolt?
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  #30  
Old 12-17-2011, 03:09 PM
71solo2challenger 71solo2challenger is offline
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sounds right to me, as long as you aren't using a rear sway bar that should be right.
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