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  #1  
Old 07-28-2012, 09:13 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Help 440 running hotter than I believe it should?

Hey guys I have what I think to be a hotter than normal water temp. I have a 22" 2 pass alum. rad. , alum. water pump and housing, clean and new anti freeze and water mix. flex fan w/ 3/4 shroud. It runs down the road at 180-200 but let it idle and look out 230.. at last ditch effort was removing the 180 thermostat, it helped a little but mot much. any ideas greatly welcomed.. Anthony
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Cudadrag Cudadrag is offline
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Is N.C. still getting the 100+ degree heat? All my cars are running hotter especally at idle in the heat wave. We finally got a break this week-end, but looks as if we go back into the oven next week.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:25 PM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
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Assuming the engine is tuned properly, And you didn't suddenly blow a head gasket or something, about all you can do is put in a bigger radiator, and/or put a "pusher" electric fan in the front of the radiator to act as an auxilliary fan when the temp gets too high. Different thermostats won't really help, because once they reach their opening temperature, the engine will run at that temperature minimum. But they can't make an engine run cooler.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:48 PM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
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I tried adding a pusher fan as did several folks I know and none of us had a bit of luck with them. I actually wonder if they don't block some airflow?

My heating issue went away, waay away, when I finally got a co-ordinated engine/carb/head/cam set-up. Modern fuel and a wrong AF ratio are rough on engine temps.
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:08 AM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
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Funny, because a pusher fan was what finally cured my car's low speed overheating problem.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2012, 03:24 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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what you idling at? set idle so when at stop light, and put in neutral, idle about 1200 to 1400. Water pump speed dependent on idle setting. Switch to electric puller fan, I got a 1700 cfm 14 inch one for about $80 from Summit. Use with origianl big block fan shroud. Pulls about 9 amps off of alternator outlet. Dump mechanical fan and gain horsepower. about 10 to 20. make sure engine compartment vented, so air can move through radiator easier. I never turn on my electric fan unless at stop light. 496 runs cool when car moving. Have an alum radiator like yours.
Drill 1/16 inch hole in thermostat so air will not trap under it.

Also, flex fans don't have the best reputation. The Mopar Performance 5 blade viscous fan is much better
at cooling, from what I've heard.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/vifanpa1.html

But again, with an alum radiator, I'd chuck the mechanical fan.
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2012, 07:43 AM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340_GTS View Post
Assuming the engine is tuned properly, And you didn't suddenly blow a head gasket or something, about all you can do is put in a bigger radiator, and/or put a "pusher" electric fan in the front of the radiator to act as an auxilliary fan when the temp gets too high. Different thermostats won't really help, because once they reach their opening temperature, the engine will run at that temperature minimum. But they can't make an engine run cooler.
Hey tks for the reply I tried the pusher fan and found it upset the highway cooling so I think bigger rad. is the way to go next.. tks Anthony
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2012, 07:51 AM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kinsley View Post
I tried adding a pusher fan as did several folks I know and none of us had a bit of luck with them. I actually wonder if they don't block some airflow?

My heating issue went away, waay away, when I finally got a co-ordinated engine/carb/head/cam set-up. Modern fuel and a wrong AF ratio are rough on engine temps.
Hi , When the temp goes up the car does not idle well , stalls starts right up no starter lag, just won't idle in drive .
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2012, 07:55 AM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudadrag View Post
Is N.C. still getting the 100+ degree heat? All my cars are running hotter especally at idle in the heat wave. We finally got a break this week-end, but looks as if we go back into the oven next week.
Yes I do not even think of going out then but when its 90 + I need to be careful.
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2012, 11:50 AM
chirorod chirorod is offline
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Have you looked at all the usual suspects? Such as a collapsing lower radiator hose, closed heat riser, timing off?
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  #11  
Old 07-29-2012, 12:04 PM
440roadrunner 440roadrunner is offline
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Put the stat back in. 230 is NOT hot. If it's not puking out the cap, leave it alone
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2012, 01:13 PM
aarracer aarracer is offline
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What is the timing @ 3000 rpm? Should be mid to high 30's
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  #13  
Old 07-29-2012, 04:23 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440roadrunner View Post
Put the stat back in. 230 is NOT hot. If it's not puking out the cap, leave it alone
230 is hot. Will increase liklihood of detonation, and rob power, especially with iron heads. Should not be over
200 to 210 max with that alum radiator anyway. Something wrong.

Flush cooling system lately?
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  #14  
Old 07-29-2012, 04:54 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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yes I have ,both hoses are new w/ springs and timing is set at 7 btdc, thanks for the reminder.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2012, 05:03 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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no detonation, or starter lag, flushed 500 miles ago, and clean .This motor was re built many years ago, were there different head gaskets, or all 440's the same, 130 psi in all 8 +- 2 psi. Wen I bought this car I don't think it had more than 1000 on the rebuild, judging from the valve covers and lifter valley.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2012, 05:39 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboutaqtlow View Post
no detonation, or starter lag, flushed 500 miles ago, and clean .This motor was re built many years ago, were there different head gaskets, or all 440's the same, 130 psi in all 8 +- 2 psi. Wen I bought this car I don't think it had more than 1000 on the rebuild, judging from the valve covers and lifter valley.
total timing above 3000 is the key. Too much advance can cause the car to run hot.

what rpm do you idle at?

also, no thermostat can cause engine to run hot, because water doesn't stay long enough in engine/radiator to remove necessary amout of heat
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2012, 06:01 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440roadrunner View Post
Put the stat back in. 230 is NOT hot. If it's not puking out the cap, leave it alone
I agree, 230 is hotter than I like but it's not overhot by contemporary standards...just be sure the pressure cap matches the temperature.
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2012, 06:30 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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hi tks I will need to ck total advance , and the car idles at 650 in drive and around 900 in park. I tried the thermostat in and out and it has little affect , it seems to run a little cooler with none running down the road, and not much if any sitting at a light.
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2012, 06:34 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
I agree, 230 is hotter than I like but it's not overhot by contemporary standards...just be sure the pressure cap matches the temperature.
I though the same thing about 220- 230 with no fluid boil over, maybe a inaccuracy in the guage but when it gets to 220 it doesn't want to idle.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2012, 06:57 PM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
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If I get above 215 or so I start having fuel percolation issues, which basically cause the gas-ohol to boil out of the carb, and the engine shuts down. Another reason why 220 is too hot, at least for my car and the gas we are forced to use here. I'm sure other cars have the same issues theses days.
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2012, 07:29 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboutaqtlow View Post
hi tks I will need to ck total advance , and the car idles at 650 in drive and around 900 in park. I tried the thermostat in and out and it has little affect , it seems to run a little cooler with none running down the road, and not much if any sitting at a light.
In neutral at a stop light, have idle at 1400. Will significantly increase water flow and air flow. The Mopar mechanical fan will give you even more airflow, especially with the corresponding Mopar shroud!
A 440 idling at 650, in gear, at a stop light, in the summer, is inviting overheating! Also, run tranny lines to a stacked plate cooler, and bypass your radiator, if not already bypassed.
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2012, 11:40 PM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboutaqtlow View Post
Hi , When the temp goes up the car does not idle well , stalls starts right up no starter lag, just won't idle in drive .
================================================== =========

Whatta ya think? Maybe gas vaporizing when it's staying in the bowl too long?

I built some plywood spacers which dramatically dropped the fuel bowl temp on my car from 180deg to 110deg!!!!! That was a great help for me.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2012, 11:51 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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cold air induction is good too!
ramairbox.com
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2012, 07:16 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
I agree, 230 is hotter than I like but it's not overhot by contemporary standards...just be sure the pressure cap matches the temperature.
Yes, but contemporary standards mean a lot of aluminum blocks and heads. Aluminum dissipates heat a lot better. A big 'ol Mopar 440 hunk of iron will have trouble with 230 degrees. I run my 496 with aluminum heads up near 200, because the aluminum combustion chamber likes hotter water, to keep cylinder pressure up. Engine seems to run stonger with a 190 thermostat.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2012, 08:03 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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Very nice I will have to try that tks.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2012, 09:03 PM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
In neutral at a stop light, have idle at 1400. Will significantly increase water flow and air flow. The Mopar mechanical fan will give you even more airflow, especially with the corresponding Mopar shroud!
A 440 idling at 650, in gear, at a stop light, in the summer, is inviting overheating! Also, run tranny lines to a stacked plate cooler, and bypass your radiator, if not already bypassed.
1400! My car will do 40 mph at 1400 rpm. You cannot realistically have a 1400 rpm idle speed with an automatic and a stock torque converter.
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2012, 01:45 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340_GTS View Post
1400! My car will do 40 mph at 1400 rpm. You cannot realistically have a 1400 rpm idle speed with an automatic and a stock torque converter.
As I mentioned, put it in neutral.

A stock converter means slow on the street, but anyway, try 1200 rpm. Thats doubles the water pump and fan speed when stopped.

When I am at a light, I slip it into neutral. Then I put it in gear just before the light is gonna change. In gear, the rpm is around 1100, but I have a 3500 stall.
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2012, 12:04 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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I had an issue with my 383 would overheat sitting at light turns out the Cam timing was off. I degreed in the cam and the issue went away. Previous to that I had played with the jetting and a richer setting helped a little. If its running lean on idle it will run it hot so what are your main jets and have you checked the Cam to make sure its degreed in. Mine was a 509 purple shaft from mopar and it was a few degrees off.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:54 PM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post

A stock converter means slow on the street,
It isn't that bad. I think a stock 340 converter is around 2500. My idle was about 650 in gear and I changed it to 850 now. I tried to get it real hot and make it stall last night, and it wouldn't do it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:03 PM
aboutaqtlow aboutaqtlow is offline
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I believe the cam is installed correctly, I will raise the Idle , I will need to check the jets , the car ran hot with the 650 carter, I know have a 750 Holley, and I have been thinking of taking the trans lines to its own cooler. I also need to learn how to check total advance, I do not have a timing light with degree retard and a stock balancer . is there a distance from tdc or a second grove in the balancer??
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