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wagnerjw
09-30-2012, 09:56 PM
Did a engine swap on my 86' Ramcharger this weekend. Swapped it from a 318 to a different 318 being the other was smoking bad. The old engine would start, run drive and it was switched over to a Edelbrock intake and carb by the previous owner. I took that intake and carb and put it on my 85 318 engine and now it won't start. The only glaring difference I saw between the two motors is the one in the truck originally didn't have vacuum advance and the new engine I just put in does.

The engine I bought is supposed to have 75,000 miles so I didn't check the compression. What I did do was put new gaskets on it from top to bottom and button it back up. All I can get it to do is spit and sputter and the only way you can get it to kinda run is by putting gas in the carb. Checked timing, rotor location, plug firing order and even put on the other fuel pump from the running motor and nothing. Even when you put gas in the carb it really doesn't start. You have to try and press the gas pedal fast to get to try and continue to get it to run but it dies. The longest I had it half ways running was maybe 10 seconds. Also checked the carb and there is fuel getting in it when you move the linkage.

Is this a vacuum issue? Fuel issue even though there is gas getting there? Or something else completely different. Also should not this was originally a Smog pump engine but it was taken off by the prior owner as well. That being said there are a ton of vacuum lines and hoses everywhere and maybe the problem is in there.
Thanks for any info and the long read, I just wanted to explain what's going on.

JVMopar
09-30-2012, 10:48 PM
So the distributor that was in the ramcharger didn't have vacuum advance? And you put that dist. back on the "new" engine right?

Remember that if your dist doesn't have vacuum advance and it has a carb then you have a lean burn type of set up. Probably best to just use a vacuum advance dist. with the good old Chrysler electronic ignition.

Sounds like you don't have the timing right yet. Of course you don't know what cam was in either engine which can make a difference too, but you'd think you would be able to get it to run.

Have you verified the timing mark on the balance and TDC are aligned?

If you have then mark on the dist. where the #1 tower is on the cap. Now set the balancer at 10 degrees before TDC. Rotate the dist so the reluctor is just pass the center metal strip on the magnetic pickup. Of course the rotor should be pointed in the direction of the #1 mark on the dist. That should get your timing close enough for it to crank up.

Just throwing some idea's out there.

440roadrunner
10-01-2012, 02:20 AM
Sounds to me like the timing is off

Describe EXACTLY how you set it

Examine the plugs. You may have fouled them from all the fuel

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 09:28 AM
So the distributor that was in the ramcharger didn't have vacuum advance? And you put that dist. back on the "new" engine right?

Remember that if your dist doesn't have vacuum advance and it has a carb then you have a lean burn type of set up. Probably best to just use a vacuum advance dist. with the good old Chrysler electronic ignition.

Sounds like you don't have the timing right yet. Of course you don't know what cam was in either engine which can make a difference too, but you'd think you would be able to get it to run.

Have you verified the timing mark on the balance and TDC are aligned?

If you have then mark on the dist. where the #1 tower is on the cap. Now set the balancer at 10 degrees before TDC. Rotate the dist so the reluctor is just pass the center metal strip on the magnetic pickup. Of course the rotor should be pointed in the direction of the #1 mark on the dist. That should get your timing close enough for it to crank up.

Just throwing some idea's out there.

The original engine that was in the truck didn't have vacuum advance. The new engine I put in does. Yes we checked the timing by the way you described. we pulled the number 1 plug, put our finger over the hole and turned the motor over by hand until the piston was on the compression stroke and you can feel it blow your finger off. checked timing mark on balancer and it was dead on the with the mark and the rotor was pointing right at number one on the cap. We figured even if the timing was off a little we would still be able to get it to start. Pretty sure both cam's are stock or at least the one in the new engine is.. thanks

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 09:36 AM
Sounds to me like the timing is off

Describe EXACTLY how you set it

Examine the plugs. You may have fouled them from all the fuel

we pulled the number 1 plug, put our finger over the hole and turned the motor over by hand until the piston was on the compression stroke and you can feel it blow your finger off. checked timing mark on balancer and it was dead on the with the mark and the rotor was pointing right at number one on the cap.

Rich Kinsley
10-01-2012, 12:18 PM
Leave the dist loose enough to move and next time you try to get it running advance the dist a bit and see if it settles in better. You might check the plugs to see if you are getting too much gas. The Eddy can't take over 6.5psi fuel pressure or you will bend the floats and gas will gush in. You should be able to see that though. I did:-) Don't worry about what the timing should be. Just move the dist till it seems right, if that's the issue, and call it good.

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 12:50 PM
Leave the dist loose enough to move and next time you try to get it running advance the dist a bit and see if it settles in better. You might check the plugs to see if you are getting too much gas. The Eddy can't take over 6.5psi fuel pressure or you will bend the floats and gas will gush in. You should be able to see that though. I did:-) Don't worry about what the timing should be. Just move the dist till it seems right, if that's the issue, and call it good.

Do you think that being I went from a engine that didn't have vacuum advance to and engine that does have anything to do with my problem? Also, I took off the Edelbrock and I put on my Carter AFB 625 or 650 that only has roughly 2-300 miles on it and the engine does the exact same thing it did with the Edelbrock. I should have messed with the dist but I didn't because the engine came out of a running pick-up and I wouldn't figure the timing would be messed up just by pulling the motor and putting it in a different vehicle.

440roadrunner
10-01-2012, 01:32 PM
Look at your old distributor, hold the bottom shaft and attempt to "spring" t he rotor. If it is locked to the shaft OR if the distributor has TWO pickup coils, you have a lean burn setup.

I'm not very familiar with these, so you'll have to wait for others or do some Googling, but seems to me the lean burn junk which uses two pickups has a relay which must be bypassed re: the pickup coils

OTHER than that, this acts to me exactly as if it's retarded timing.

What shape is the timing chain/ sprockets in? You can get a "rough" idea of this by turning the crank cw, then ccw while watching the dist. rotor for movement. You should have less than 10* of crank rotation before the rotor moves. In fact, far less.

Have you checked spark quality? That is crank the engine USING THE KEY and not by jumpering the starter relay, while holding a grounded probe at the coil tower, you should have a nice fat spark 3/8--1/2" long.

(When you jumper the starter relay, the resistor bypass circuit in the ign switch is not active, giving you lower voltage to the ignition system, and a lesser spark)

dodger1
10-01-2012, 01:34 PM
One thing about vacuum advance - it has no effect at closed throttle. Providing, of course, it's hooked to the correct (ported) vacuum tit on the carb.
Also, there's only 2 positions the dist. can be when installed - either correctly aligned with #1 at TDC or 180 degrees out. If it is 180 out, you'll get the effect you describe.
I'm a bit confused though. Did (does) your Ramcharger have the original Electronic Spark Control (aka "leanburn")? Or had it been converted back to the older "Electronic Ignition" before you did the engine swap?

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 02:09 PM
One thing about vacuum advance - it has no effect at closed throttle. Providing, of course, it's hooked to the correct (ported) vacuum tit on the carb.
Also, there's only 2 positions the dist. can be when installed - either correctly aligned with #1 at TDC or 180 degrees out. If it is 180 out, you'll get the effect you describe.
I'm a bit confused though. Did (does) your Ramcharger have the original Electronic Spark Control (aka "leanburn")? Or had it been converted back to the older "Electronic Ignition" before you did the engine swap?

What's the easiest way to tell? I'm doing some research on it right now. I was just reading roadrunners reply on how to find out and I saw yours. I know the dist. on the engine I pulled did not have the vacuum advance and the engine I put it does which leads me to believe one of them is/was a lean burn set-up.

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 02:11 PM
One thing about vacuum advance - it has no effect at closed throttle. Providing, of course, it's hooked to the correct (ported) vacuum tit on the carb.
Also, there's only 2 positions the dist. can be when installed - either correctly aligned with #1 at TDC or 180 degrees out. If it is 180 out, you'll get the effect you describe.
I'm a bit confused though. Did (does) your Ramcharger have the original Electronic Spark Control (aka "leanburn")? Or had it been converted back to the older "Electronic Ignition" before you did the engine swap?

Also we did make sure that the dist. is not off 180 degress. We pulled the plug on #1 and waited for the compression stroke and the rotor was pointed at #1 on the cap.

wagnerjw
10-01-2012, 05:06 PM
So the distributor that was in the ramcharger didn't have vacuum advance? And you put that dist. back on the "new" engine right?

Remember that if your dist doesn't have vacuum advance and it has a carb then you have a lean burn type of set up. Probably best to just use a vacuum advance dist. with the good old Chrysler electronic ignition.

Sounds like you don't have the timing right yet. Of course you don't know what cam was in either engine which can make a difference too, but you'd think you would be able to get it to run.

Have you verified the timing mark on the balance and TDC are aligned?

If you have then mark on the dist. where the #1 tower is on the cap. Now set the balancer at 10 degrees before TDC. Rotate the dist so the reluctor is just pass the center metal strip on the magnetic pickup. Of course the rotor should be pointed in the direction of the #1 mark on the dist. That should get your timing close enough for it to crank up.

Just throwing some idea's out there.
If I want to rid the Ramcharger of the lean burn set up and just use the dist with the vacuum advance that's in the vehicle now what does that all entail?

dodger1
10-01-2012, 11:18 PM
Couple of ways to do it. You already have a dist. with vacuum advance, so you could just re-wire the ign. harness to mimic a pre-ESC set-up. You will need to source an ECM, ballast resistor, and related harness (Mopar Perf. or???) and preferably have a factory shop manual covering older non-ESC vehicles (for the electrical schematics). The other way is to run an MSD-type box. I did my Mirada both ways. The box (Mallory in my case) is much simpler. You will need to carefully plug any unused vacuum ports, though. All you'll need will be a ported vacuum source (usually on the front of the carb - driver's side) for the dist., and a manifold vacuum source for the brake booster, purge canister, and any other vacuum operated accessories. And of course, you might need to make your local emission police happy with your work :)

Rich Kinsley
10-05-2012, 01:09 AM
[Quote : ---------------------------- All you'll need will be a ported vacuum source (usually on the front of the carb - driver's side) for the dist., --------
================================================== =========


On the Edelbrock the ported source is the one on the right side, passenger side.

Isn't that correct?

old woolie
10-08-2012, 08:31 PM
Have you tried simply removing the dist. from the "new" engine and replacing it with the dist. from the "old" engine? It seems to me this was assumed but never verified.

cudabob496
10-11-2012, 03:52 AM
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/roadside.html

wagnerjw
10-11-2012, 10:03 AM
Have you tried simply removing the dist. from the "new" engine and replacing it with the dist. from the "old" engine? It seems to me this was assumed but never verified.

Distributor on old motor is for a lean burn set-up and I don't want that anymore.