Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > Technical Forums > Performance Talk

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-27-2012, 06:39 AM
aatkinson aatkinson is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Posts: 7
Default 440 compresson / ally head question

Hi guys
Wonder if you can help with some compression / heads related queries.

The motor is a Jensen with a mopar 440. The block is a stock recon block from the US (the company said it was in the range of 9.1 - 9.5 compression). I have just fitted headers and an eddy performer plus cam + a pair of Edelbrock RPM heads(84cc) that I bought on my last trip over state side.
The engine details:
bore: 4.350 (been rebored)
stroke: 3.750
head vol: 84cc
deck clearance: 0.09 - 0.1 (down the hole)
gasket thickness: 0.038

On the summit compression calculator this is coming out as a compression ratio 8.93. However, since my last trip I see edebock have brought out a set of e-street heads with 75cc volume. This would clearly increase my compression to 9.6.

So to the questions (sorry if they sound dumb - I'm not mopar expert)

Do you people think that I should stick with the rpm head 84cc heads or go for the new 75cc (I'm in the states next month and so can pick up a pair). Do you guys think the increase in compression worth the trade off in cc?
I'm not looking for super car, just a decent pull off the line (lots of torque). I also don't have the time to pull the block and change the pistons which I know is the best way to increase compression.

I also have considered fitting a steel shim gasket. I have a pair of 0.016 thick gaskets sitting on the shelf here. Do folks think it is worth the effort? Based on the summit calculator if I went for the small cc heads and steel gasket this would put my compression in the 10:1 range.
That feels quiet a big uplift but would be interested in anyone's views if I what I currently have will hit the mark (the car is stripped of it's interior and paint so wont be drivable for another few months - and therefore I can't test drive.

Appreciated your advice
Many thanks, Alex in the UK
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-27-2012, 09:04 AM
te.ringer te.ringer is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: glenn dale md.
Age: 69
Posts: 187
Default

I don't think you can use steel shim headgaskets on alum. heads unless there the coated type. I could be wrong someone here with more exp.might ring in on this.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-27-2012, 09:31 AM
JVMopar's Avatar
JVMopar JVMopar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mellen, WI
Age: 42
Posts: 2,524
Default

First off that steel shim gasket isn't going to work well unless it's a multi-layer gasket. Aluminum and cast iron expand and contract at different rates. So with the head moving around on that shim it would be hard to get a good seal.

The CC of the combustion chamber is only going to determine the compression ratio, has nothing to do with the heads overall performance. The 75cc edelbrock heads listed on summit have a much larger intake and exhaust runners, and have much more flow above 0.500" lift. But with your low lift cam that isn't much of a benifit. Then there is port velocity to think about too.

I don't think your going to gain anything besides compression from swapping heads with your current combo. I think a cam change would be a better choice. You've basicly got a stock 340 grind cam. Which is listed for truck/rv use. The heads you have don't really peak their flow till 0.600" lift so you have alot of room there. Call around and get some cam recommendations. That's going to be the best bang for your buck.

If I were my engine I'd swap a set of multi-layer 0.020" head gaskets and the cam. That should put you in the 9.25:1 range and a cam with a lift of about 0.500 maybe a 0.484. Depending on manual trans or what stall converter you have.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:14 AM
Rich Kinsley Rich Kinsley is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Omaha/Ne
Age: 80
Posts: 760
Default

Since you have it all together now and haven't run it, why not just wait till you try it to make any changes. You may be happy with it as is and will save a bunch of money to buy more gas :-) You can always tweak it later.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-27-2012, 05:05 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NorCal
Age: 80
Posts: 10,059
Default

There's a common belief that aluminum heads absorb enough combustion heat to alter the perceived compression ratio about a full point...ergo 9.6 becomes 8.6 in theory.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:12 PM
340_GTS 340_GTS is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 687
Default

You could always mill the existing heads.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:47 PM
440Ramcharger's Avatar
440Ramcharger 440Ramcharger is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Tempe AZ
Age: 65
Posts: 382
Default

Run it the way you have it configured. The 440 makes loads of torque. You will be happy as is. Do you still have the 3.07 gear ratio?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:15 PM
mtdrydock mtdrydock is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MT
Posts: 61
Default

What are you looking at getting out of it? 9:1 with aluminum heads is pretty low, but have you looked at Hughes Whiplash cam? I have no experience with them but plan on running one on my smogger 440. They have narrow lobe separation, very little overlap, and early intake closing to build dynamic compression.

Dunnuck Racing used a whiplash cam, otb rpm heads, otb performer intake, 1.5:1 rockers and 9.2:1 compression to make 491hp 578lbft.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-08-2012, 08:54 PM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richland, WA
Age: 71
Posts: 2,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
There's a common belief that aluminum heads absorb enough combustion heat to alter the perceived compression ratio about a full point...ergo 9.6 becomes 8.6 in theory.
Alum removes heat better than steel, so that decreases cylinder pressure I think. I run a higher thermostat to compensate. Pump gas limits
an iron head motor to around 9.5/1 CR, while alum heads allow a 10.5 CR on 92 Octane, assuming your timing is not too agressive, and your cam
has a fairly large duration.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:25 PM
440+6 440+6 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Greenville, PA
Age: 34
Posts: 116
Default

I would have to agree that since the engine is already together, to run it and see how you like it. However, while the 440 is a torquey engine, I think you're really short-changing yourself with the low comp. ratio. Without getting too involved, I'd say you should at least have the heads milled and use the thinner head gaskets. I built an IRON headed 440 w/ 10.6:1 comp. and 34 degrees of timing and dynoed it on 93 octane pump gas with no issues at all. Though it had a pretty good sized cam, I'd say with yours having aluminum heads and an average cam, you'd want at least 10.5:1 to really optimize your engine.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:56 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richland, WA
Age: 71
Posts: 2,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aatkinson View Post
Hi guys
Wonder if you can help with some compression / heads related queries.

The motor is a Jensen with a mopar 440. The block is a stock recon block from the US (the company said it was in the range of 9.1 - 9.5 compression). I have just fitted headers and an eddy performer plus cam + a pair of Edelbrock RPM heads(84cc) that I bought on my last trip over state side.
The engine details:
bore: 4.350 (been rebored)
stroke: 3.750
head vol: 84cc
deck clearance: 0.09 - 0.1 (down the hole)
gasket thickness: 0.038

On the summit compression calculator this is coming out as a compression ratio 8.93. However, since my last trip I see edebock have brought out a set of e-street heads with 75cc volume. This would clearly increase my compression to 9.6.

So to the questions (sorry if they sound dumb - I'm not mopar expert)

Do you people think that I should stick with the rpm head 84cc heads or go for the new 75cc (I'm in the states next month and so can pick up a pair). Do you guys think the increase in compression worth the trade off in cc?
I'm not looking for super car, just a decent pull off the line (lots of torque). I also don't have the time to pull the block and change the pistons which I know is the best way to increase compression.

I also have considered fitting a steel shim gasket. I have a pair of 0.016 thick gaskets sitting on the shelf here. Do folks think it is worth the effort? Based on the summit calculator if I went for the small cc heads and steel gasket this would put my compression in the 10:1 range.
That feels quiet a big uplift but would be interested in anyone's views if I what I currently have will hit the mark (the car is stripped of it's interior and paint so wont be drivable for another few months - and therefore I can't test drive.

Appreciated your advice
Many thanks, Alex in the UK
Don't know if its true, but I read somewhere that an old engine will gain about .5 in Compression Ratio due to carbon buildup over time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bb head question bulldog426 Performance Talk 5 05-19-2012 06:11 PM
440 - edelbrock cam / ally head questions aatkinson Performance Talk 5 01-07-2012 10:57 AM
New head question Dave Baker Circle Track Chat 7 01-31-2010 12:24 PM
Head question jimmycarter Performance Talk 3 10-05-2002 08:05 PM
J head question Rex Jr Performance Talk 4 11-24-2000 03:56 AM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .