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  #1  
Old 02-22-2000, 01:31 PM
Steve Steve is offline
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hey guys sorry I haven't been posting, but I just figured some of you would get tired of old 273 stories. Well almost ready for Keystone. The engines out for the 4th time in its short rebuild history. I was just going to have Tim Bowman do some port work and milling (to raise compreesion) on the stock 360 heads that I ran last year , but that turned into more. Tim found a little metal in the engine that he thinks is from the Comp. Cam that mysteriously ground away a lobe, after 50 miles of use, and a couple small scratches in two cylinder walls from what he thinks are Ray Bartons fault for putting on low pressure oil rings in a Street car. Also some of the bearing had some small scratches in them so I'm going to have the crank polished, new bearings, block honed, and new rings. Nothing can ever be simple for me.
The tranny is my big upgrade this year, I finally saved enough money to get a 4800 stall 8" Turbo Action converter, Manual shift valve body, Mopar race rebuild kit, and 2.77 low gear set. I hope this baby runs better next year. I figure it ran 13.90's smoking the back plugs and misfiring the whole way down the track with those 145,000 mile 360 heads. What do you think the car will run with the head work and tranny work? Oh well, thanks for listening to these 273 stories.
Also, tell me agin what you heard on that white Belvedere with a "273" in it.
Thanks,
Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve (edited February 22, 2000).]
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2000, 01:44 PM
mopartodd mopartodd is offline
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Steve, Where do you run your car? My dad and brother run a white Mirada at Keystone. I'm curious because i've heard some impressive stories about a fast 273, I think a dart, or something.
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  #3  
Old 02-23-2000, 01:47 AM
Steve Steve is offline
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Mopartodd,
Not only do I know your dad and brother, but we have gotten to be pretty good friends. Infact, I lent him last season my set of 4.88 gears. They are really great people. Small world,huh. My father and I were going to go with them to the Mopar swap meet in Columbus next weekend, but your dad couldn't make it. Hey, tell your dad Steve with the blue Dart says hi.
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  #4  
Old 02-23-2000, 02:16 PM
mopartodd mopartodd is offline
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Steve, Spoke with my dad yesterday. He said your Dart really runs. I'm looking forward to seeing it at the track when I get back home this year. Do you ever get a chance to go to any of the Mopar shows? They have a decent one down here at Rockingham every spring, I'm hoping Bob and Pat get a chance to come down this year. I may be coming up for the Nats if I can talk my wife into celebrating her birthday in Pittsburgh. Good luck with the Dart.
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2000, 06:15 PM
Tim_K Tim_K is offline
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Welcome back, Steve! No need to think we don't want to read your 273 stories here. I get tired of the same old 340 and 360 and 440 buildups and the same general group of questions time after time. I post many different topics and responses here, they're there for all to read. In fact, me and Speedy have quite a topic going on Slant Sixes. Take some time and read through HEADS OR TAILS for a lot of Slant Six stuff that me and Speedy have done. It got so big, we had to start another topic, 'Speedy and Tim's Slant Six page'!
Since I last saw you here, I finally got my 273. A 1965 engine, with 81000 miles. Took it down to the shortblock (still assembled) and never got any farther. I figured that with my new Dremel set, I would port out a /6 head for some mild power increase to satisfy me while I built the 273. Well, I ended up gaining 20 horsepower, and am considering a full /6 buildup now instead, just to see what it can do. It'll make for a good topic here, only a handful of us ever even write about 273's and /6's. Only response I ever got to my 273 questions came on the topic 'which pistons to use?'.

Sounds like that cam lobe definitely spread metal throughout the engine. Fix it now while you still can. Ray Barton should know better than to put low tension oil rings in a street engine. Was your motor using oil? I'd use standard tension rings in my motor, that's not a good place to try and get an extra half-horsepower. I'd suggest some Speed-Pro moly rings, standard tension. One guy I know buys rings that are 0.030" overbore, then files them to fit his engine! Not only is that too much tension, but the rings are probably being forced out of round and are not sealing completely. The engine runs real good, though.

That new transmission should let that 273 wind up real quick. Are you still using the 4.56 gears? How about Super Stock springs? /6 torsion bars? 90/10 shocks? With all those parts working right, you should be in the low 13's if not the 12's somewhere. I'll be looking for your Dart out at Keystone when they open. I'd like to see it run.

As for that white Belvedere (or Satellite, I forget), here's what I heard about that 273. I was taking my /6 ported head down to Associates' Performance in Tarentum to get the head cut 0.070" for compression. The guy who owns the place had pictures on his wall, and I was looking at them while he dealt with 2 Shivvy losers who wanted to build up their Monte Carlo, but had no idea what they were talking about. All they knew were a bunch of big performance words. Anyhow, that white Belvedere was 1 of the pictures. When it was finally my turn, I was talking to the owner about the pictures, and mentioned how I'd seen the Belvedere run 12.8 out at Keystone, that was great for a 273! The guy said "it's not a 273", then must have caught himself, because he wouldn't say what it was, but he had already said it wasn't a 273. That's all I needed to hear. Personally, if all this is true, I don't appreciate that guy putting 273 emblems on his 318 or 340 or 360, whatever it is. Mopar people shouldn't be in with that kind of dishonesty. Considering all the problems you're having with your 60 foot times, it is something to think about how his bigger, heavier car is pulling 1.76 60 foots. I saw it on a couple of his timeslips. Well, the truth will come out, and I want to be there when it does. I got all excited and went out of my way to talk to him, because I wanted to find out all about how he got a 273 to run so good.
Well, whatever. Write back, and let me know what you think of all this.
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2000, 02:05 PM
Steve Steve is offline
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Tim K,
Answers first. I'm still running the 90/10's, an d the 4.56's. As far as the /6 torsion and the super stock springs I haven't needed them so far, but this year I may have to change to them.
Now for some more news. The guy with the Belevedere told me last year that he was running 10.5:1 Keith Black Hyperteunic Pistons. The reason I remember, was that I told him that Ray Barton said that they were junk. However, this winter I saw a commercial for Keith Black pistons an da free catalog offer. I got the catalog and guess what engine size was not listed, 273 Mopar. I called the hotline, though, and got a tech. rep. on the phone, he in turn transfered my call to someone in the design and manufacturing department at Keith Black. I asked if they make custom pistons, his answer was no. Then I asked if they have ever made a piston for a small block Mopar 273. Again his answer was no. Now I'm 99% sure the guy with the Belvedere told me that was his piston of choice because I wanted to run something similar, but Ray said run the JE's. With your story now of the machine shop fiasko, it makes you think. Ray barton told me to put a bigger engine in and just tell everyone that it's a 273, but look what trouble that gets you in. If this comes out this season, he'll look like a fool. I don't know why he had to lie about engine size because the car is really fast and respectable no matter what is in it. Also, other things did not add up like carb size. He is running an edelbrock 750cfm carb. From all the Carb places I've talked to, no matter how much you do to the engine it's still a 273 cubic inch engine(small), and because of this, the biggest carb suggested was a Race Demon 650. The guys at edelbrock said with a combo. like I'm going to have this season, a 750 may work , but you'll lose off the line and gain, though, at the top end. The Belvedere guy sure hasn't lost the bottom end with a 3000-3500 10" Street Fighter TCI converter and 1.76 sixty foot times.
Tell me what you think of this new news.
Steve
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2000, 10:23 PM
Tim_K Tim_K is offline
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I have even more new news, Steve. Today, I went to a local junkyard to get a pair of '76 974 casting 360 heads to port out for my '79 Aspen R/T 360-4. I know both mechanics there, and was talking to one of them today. He says he knows the guy with the '273' Belvedere, and claims the guy installed a 360 and 4 speed for this year. I asked him several times "OK, but what motor did he run LAST year?" and he never answered. He kept interrupting and changing the subject. Oh well, he wasn't one of the more intelligent people I've ever met anyway.
A while back when I was searching for 273 pistons, I called every piston maker I could think of. I know I called Keith Black, and I'm pretty sure they also said they would not make Hyper's for a 273, not enough demand. Turned out to be very few choices available, if I remember correctly, there were no Hypereutectics available anywhere, it was either cast or high dollar custom forged pistons.
The way his car runs, it sure seems like a 360 to me, even though the motor was painted red to look like a 60's 273. The truth will come out eventually, and if he really did put fake 273 emblems on a 360 car, I'll never forget about it.
One more thing, the 'junkyard genius', in the course of his largely B.S. storytelling, said maybe the car was originally a 273 car, and the guy was trying to keep it looking original! Yeah, those 273 emblems look real original on the sides of that big hood scoop! See you later.

[This message has been edited by Tim_K (edited February 25, 2000).]
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2000, 12:55 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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So if there is so much mystery surrounding this motor, why not just look at the mounting ears? he may be able to hide the 273 casting number on the block, but he cant hide the 340/360 mounting ear bolt pattern.
I run a 340 in a '65 Formula "S", but I refuse to remove the "S" badge from my fenders. So they think it is a 273/4, too bad. But If they ask, I tell em right. Yeah good luck on the 10.x pistons. One guy was trying to get a bunch of orders to submit to some custom house for a volume discount, havn't heard the outcome. I wish I saved mine. Spun rod bearing, and a broken rod cap. Dumped it in a field 6 years ago for a fresh 318. I was young and dumb. I went back last year to try and find it. No luck.....
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Old 02-26-2000, 03:56 PM
Tim_K Tim_K is offline
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Interesting idea, pishta. It would be hard to explain why I was under the car looking for block casting numbers, and he has the motor painted very heavily in the area where the numbers are stamped on the front of the block, just below the left cylinder head, so you can't see them. I know, I looked very hard.
But this motor mount idea is something I hadn't thought of. I know the mounting tabs are a little farther back on the driver's side of a 340/360, but is there some other difference? Distance between the 2 bolts? Write back, pishta and let me know more about this.
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2000, 12:00 AM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Tim_K, It looks as if the 340/360 has a measurement of 2.5 inches from the BACK of the front mounting boss to the back of the rear mounting boss. The 273/318 has this measurement of 2 7/8 inches. This sounds about right because I had to shim my 318 mount to fit my 340 bosses about 3/8 worth of washers. You can mark a finger and casually lay it over the bosses when hes not looking. Try painting over that... Busted!!
I just checked my 340 out and it SEEMS to have two front mount bolt holes and only one rear mount bolt hole ( I checked with a really weak flashlight in a really dark garage, I might be mistaking on this). Looking at a pic of a 318, it has 4 bolt holes on the driver side, 2 front and 2 rear, an easy spot!! Get back with us on this. It might make some faces red with shame!
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