67 Barracuda for stock eliminator racing

[Christopher]

Here's the deal,and I'm asking everybodys opinions on this..... I have a very good chance to buy a 67 Barracuda notchback for $600.00.The car has a 273 2bbl. and 904 on the column,bench seats,no rust and is in very good shape.I've been toying with the idea of making this car into either a NHRA legal stock eliminator car using either the 273 as a 2 or 4bbl,or dropping in a Mopar crate engine and running IHRA's crate motor class.Give me your thoughts.Thanks!! (I'm going to look and see what classes the car fits into and will re-post here later tonight.)

[Maxwedge]

I would say the big decider is the condition of the 273. I know of guys who hit 11's and 10's with 273s without that much cash into the motor.
Just build it well and rev it high!!!
but those guys were running 4 gears too.
another advantage for the 273 is it would probably be easier on the suspension off the line. SO there would be less money spent on the suspension.
BUT
If time is an issue I would think the 360 crate motor would be the way to go...
Max

[Christopher]

With the 273 2bbl,the car fits into P/SA,index is 13.75 record is 12.95. 273 4bbl.fits into I or J/SA,index is 12.60 and 12.75 records are 11.53 and 11.54.I also checked on using a 383, fits into E/SA or F/SA index is 12.00 and 12.15 records are 10.82 and 10.80.I don't think the 383 would be competitive.The only other thing is that a 318 4bbl Volare station wagon also fits into P/SA and I'm not sure a 2bbl 273 is competitive against a 4bbl 318.On paper,you wouldn't think so.I'm not sure what class the car fits into in IHRA with a crate engine.I'm not in any rush,I may drive the car to work for the rest of the year first.As far as parts go,I still have a few 904's and a 8 3/4 housing,along with a few small block parts left over from when I had a 340 Barracuda I used to race.The 383 idea was appealing due to the fact I use 383's and 440's in my Demon now.

[340king]

If you decide to go with the 273 2bbl, I have a single plane 273 2bbl intake collecting dust in the storage shed. It has a holley adaptor plate attached.

[moparstockeliminator]

Christopher, The E/SA - F/SA option might bear some further investigations. If you recall the E/SA National record was held for years by Gene Buell in a 71 340ci/904trans Swinger and the current F/SA automatic record also held for years by Bob Turner in a 74 360 Dart Sport. The idea of competing in those classes with the RB is at mimimum intrigueing. Not having experience with the RB in stock eliminator, I really don't know what to expect from the 383. Several 440's still lead in the upper stock classes A-C/SA.

Not far from you is Dan Dvorak, a more knowlegeable, accesable and straight up Mopar big block wedge Racer you'll probably never find. I'm sure if you wait till after the Gator's (he charitably offers his shop's service for traveling racers during Gainsville events, and is therefore more busy than a one legged man in an ass kickin' contest this time of year) he'd give you the pro's and cons of a StockEliminator 383.

I agree though with Maxwedge if your budget is restrictive the IHRA crate stock approach might be the ticket, I wish we had that option out here in Southern California. Good Luck which ever way you go I've always loved the "Notchback".

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Lead, follow or get out of the way!
Pete

[Christopher]

The only "negative" on the IHRA deal is that there is only one track here in Florida(that I know of-Bradenton)and it's a long drive for me.There are several NHRA tracks that are reasonable driving distance from me.(Gainesville will be my home track)Otherwise,I'd put in a crate motor in a hurry!! I'll have to dig more about the 383,I know I can build one that can run the number-I hope!!

[moparstockeliminator]

The 440 is a non starter for Stock Eliminator, it was not available for the nothchback in 67. The 67 Notchback was only offered with the 225,273(both 2&4 Barrels), and the 383ci engines.

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Lead, follow or get out of the way!
Pete

[JCNathan]

I raced a 64 Plymouth with 383 w/4 bbl AFB and 4.30 gears. This was back in the early 70s and it really was stone. In those days we could do very little to the car or engine but I did bore it .060 over put in the good TRW pistons blueprinted the motor, NHRA 3 angle valve job, Lunati "cheater" cam, etc. All done under the watchful eye of an NHRA Class record holder. No dice. Best I could ever do was 14.00 at 97 mph. It was mostly a 14.20 car. Weight was right at 3400 and never did take the 100 lbs out. Oh, it was E/SA (10.00 lbs/hp) and the engine was rated at 330 hp. Chris, not saying not to do it but those SB MoPar guys with their 340 Dusters always kept me solidly in second place!! <smile> Of course, the other thing you have to consider is the odd Mustrang with the 335 hp 428 that also run E/SA. And then there were the bogus chebbies that ran 300 hp sb with .500 lift cams!! Gad, those were the days tho. . .lotsa fun.

After two years of sinking money in the project -- I gave up and a friend of mine and I started racing a 69 SCRambler. I guess it's a MoPar now but then it was just fun to beat all dem chebbie and ferd guys with our little Kelvinator!!

Later,
JC

[Christopher]

I dunno guys and gals,it don't look good for the 383!! I was at Gainesville today and looked and looked and looked at the stockers today.No P/SA cars at all!! Plenty of E and F/SA cars and they all run the number,and then some!! I'm thinking the 2bbl 273 might really be the way to go.The E and F cars are all a good second under the index and there are a bunch of them.I think those two classes have most of the stockers in the world.Most of the O-P-Q-R-T-U class cars are big boats or wagons with 2bbls.I think the Barracuda can do the number as a 2bbl 273.Think a 2bbl 273 can run 13.00 -13.20's???

[JCNathan]

I think that's your best bet, Chris. The E and F stockers really are where all the muscle cars from the 60s/70s end up. Roadrunners w/383, Duster/Demon 340s, Z28 Camaroons, even those 428/335hp Torinos.

If the 273 is your choice, you can have a fun summer getting all the NHRA info on the motor. Pick up a rule book and download the spec sheets from NHRA Online. Keep us posted on how it goes. Heck, a 13 second stocker is a whale of a lot of fun. Keeps the stress low on the body and drive line and you can convert it back to a street car if you git tired of racing!!!

Later,
JC

[Christopher]

I don't even have the car yet and I downloaded all the info and drove the wife crazy when I was punching in figures on the calculator to see what classes it fit in.I kind of had the same idea as JC,if I get tired of racing that car,I can always put it back on the street.I'll admit it's going to be hard racing a 13 sec car after being used to running the Demon at 11.30,and the new 440 will have it in the 10's.Might be time to let the wife drive!!

[360duster]

Hey Christopher, i have a suggestion.Buy the barracuda & sell it to me for a little profit where i`ll have a nice daily driver project.I`ve always wanted one of those notchback cudas.It would also give me an excuse to drive down to Florida one weekend.

[IceMans68RdRunner]

Nice car it sounds like. Wish I had one.


Bryan

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68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons

[Christopher]

Since the last post,I have looked at the car real close and hold on.....NO RUST ANYWHERE!! It's been raining quite a bit here lately and I've been working a bunch of overtime too,so I haven't picked the car up yet.I did put down a deposit and will pay the rest when I pick up the car.It's black with a red stripe in the center of the hood and the interior is red and black(not factory).This must change.Don't know about exterior color yet,but a call to Legendary will happen after I decide what color to paint it.Now I have to convince the wife why I need to do all of this!!

[Larry S.]

Christopher, just tell her it's a guy thing, and if you had to explain she probably wouldn't understand. If that doesn't work don't feel too bad, didn't work with my wife either!

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1970 392 Hemi Cuda

[Woody Blanchard]

Hi Chris- There are several items within the parameter of racing such a car in NHRA stock eliminator: 1st is where the car fits in what class? If you run in ANY class other than similar engine carb combinations (2 bbl/1 bbl), the chances of being competitive are not very good. The CFM of ANY 4 bl will make more power (even if much heavier), and they will run harder in the lights as well as turn more MPH than the Carter BBD or BBS the 273s came with. P/SA in particular is not a good class to attempt such a feat in itself because there are 360 Volare and other F body cars, lighter horsepowered v-6 Fords and heavy older Chevrolets that run that class that will flat out run away and hide from the 2 bbl cars! A 273 4 bbl combination might be worth looking at, but NOT in the light A body B'cuda or Dart line. There are many 273 2 bbl cars that are very competitive, but they are in the 66/7 B body chassis, (see T/SA, U/SA). One very important aspect would be to consider what else runs the class. Go to NHRA on-line and research the stock car classification guide and check out what ALL combinations would compete in that particular body. I can tell you from past experience that a 67 383 B'cuda is a poor choice, however the 68 383 B'cuda would be an excellant combination. The reasons being: 67 has a 4299s Carter AFb which is about 500+ cfm, used a 915 SMALL EXHAUST valve casting (yes folks, there were 1.60 915 casting...would you like to buy some?), small cam and is rated @ the same hp factor as the 68/9 383 combo in the B'cudas. The 68 had the larger exhaust valves, more variety of cylinder head castings (906, 346, 452, etc), larger carter AVS (650+), somewhat larger cam specs and the same HP factoring as the 67. Which do you think will be more competitive?! I raced a 67 383 b'cuda from 70-72/3 in SS/HA and was 'OKAY' THEN, but would do nothing now, guarranteed! I'm also in the process of putting together a 68 383 car for NHRA/IHRA SS/H. This combination WILL have a difficult time being competitive in SS/H, but only because it's not a tried and true combination and there are so many Camaros with SBC and Rat motors, and Ford Mustangs with 428s that have been thrashed for so many years. Their combinations been tried by countless racers over the past 32+ years, none-the-less, nothing ventured, nothing gained! I've always been up to the challange...so if you choose to use the 67 combination look carefully and study it wisely, better yet... upgrade the car to a 68!...wb

[Christopher]

Woody, You have pointed out a lot of good info,some I didn't consider,some I didn't want to hear either,But that's why I asked EVERYONE for their opinions!!I completly forgot about the 67 heads having the smaller valves,the car would have to be run as a 68 to be competitive.Haven't made up my mind yet on what I'm going to do,but will keep everybody up to date.