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  #1  
Old 02-25-2000, 07:52 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
Posts: 141
Question

I have stock 906s right now and im going to buy a new set of heads. Which of these heads will work better with the combination that I have in my Signature??? Right now im running a all steel 68 Road Runner and im running in the mid 12s how much gain in E.T. will I recieve by changing heads?

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2000, 06:11 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
Posts: 784
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Have you done any work to these heads at all? If you havent then either get a set of later heads casting numbers 346 or 452 (these are usually real cheap at Junkyards) and template port and polish the newer castings or template port and polish your 906 castings this will give you a big increase over the stock heads as cast and not cost alot of money. The other thing is to replace the valve springs if you havent done so already. If you really wanted to change add bigger valves on exhaust and intake. But if you want major increase and have the cash buy a new set of aluminum heads. The MP Stage VI have to be ported before use to get any real good gains. The Indy heads are a good bolt on performance gain depending on the model you chose. Some of the indy heads do need porting before they will work also.

My suggestion is if you are not trying to get more than 650HP then port the stock heads they will work for most of your needs and then you can spend the money on something that can be much better used.

Christian


------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2000, 11:35 PM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
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Thanks for suggesting porting my 906s. Are the Mopar Stage VI heads not that good. Or is it just a weight reduction thing? Also I did swap the valve spring for bigger ones up to .520 lift. Also do I have to port my 906s to but bigger exhaust and intake valves in them? Thanks for the help in advance,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2000, 11:57 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
Posts: 784
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If you buy the MP Template porting package for stock heads (its like 30 bucks) You do not have to oversize your valves. Have you ever looked at the bowl area ( the area underneath the valve)?? Chrysler BB heads have 2.08 intake valves and the bowl are underneath is only 1.5" or so. What the templates do is give you a guide as to how much of this you can cut out. Which is basically all the way to the seat of the valve. This greatly increases flow over stock and doesnt cost you $1000 for new heads.

On the Stage VI heads they are a better design and in the high top end engines they can be made to flow better than stock. But they come as cast and still require porting. Besides that all the Stage VI heads are larger valves and most street engines will respond better to the stock intake valve.

I have a set of 346 ported heads and stock intake and enlarged to 1.81 exhaust valves. I beleive that this is a good street combo but since the heads are at the machine shop being cc'ed and matched and milled with a 5 angle valve job I couldnt tell you a performance increase I have gotten. But Mopar Muscle did this with several heads and these heads even out flowed a set of 906 heads similarly ported. And these 452 anad 346 heads are the later smog heads and are a dime a dozen.

Email me if you have anymore questions

Christian
cknudstrup@yahoo.com

------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2000, 05:13 AM
challengertn challengertn is offline
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Biggrin

ChristianCuda is the 1974 902 series heads equal to the 452's and 346's.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2000, 07:45 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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One more question, if I were to go with an aftermarket head? Which would be better for my application? I strickly drag race this car. And which intake or should I stay with the Torker 440? I shift at 5,800 and I think I have the wrong intake if I shift at this point. What do you think?

Thanks again in advance,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #7  
Old 02-26-2000, 07:48 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Age: 48
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Another thing is that the TRW pistons I have are actually 11.5.1 pistons, with 140 thousandths dome but with the stock 906s it brings the compression down to 10.3.1 just so you know.

Thanks,

Bryan

P.S. and with the aftermarket head that you think I should get if I get one, and intake, what will that bring my compression ratio up to estimated that is?



------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2000, 03:00 PM
Belvedere65 Belvedere65 is offline
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Location: Milford, N.H. U.S.A.
Age: 83
Posts: 155
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Iceman, if you go with the Stage6 heads buy the MP wide manifold so that you don't have to use the spacers that are needed to adapt the torker manifold to the heads.I am running the Stage6 heads with a .640 lift Ultradyne cam, Ross 12.5 pistons .010 in the hole @ about 13.1 CR. The heads are gasket matched & the bowls have been done. With these parts it requires a Dominator carb in the 990 CFM. range. If you went to the .557 or .590 MP cam you should be able to use the 4150 series carbs. I had an 850 on the car with ported 906s & 12.5 TRWs, Cr was probably 11.5 or so with 90 CC chambers in thiose heads. Just guessing! I would buy the heads bare, then have a knowlegable shop in my area do the machine work & porting.

------------------
BFRACN
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2000, 04:39 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
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ICEMAN I have 11.5:1 pistons in my 383 which also come out to a little over 10:1. So I know what you are looking at. If all you do is race then I would go with the aftermarket heads. The indys tend to be more but from what I have learned about them they can be made to flow better than the stage VI heads.

One question what times do you plan on running? If you are looking for tens or faster then the aftermarket are definitely the way to go especially the aluminum heads which will drop some weight off your front end and both of these heads can be had as closed chambers so they will bring your compression up to close to 11.5:1. Both of these heads has the raised ports on the exhaust. Both also use different intake ports than stock. The stage VI are raised and the indys depending on the heads are just meant to work with their intakes.

In the long run If you want to get into 9's then the indys will take you there i think better than the others we have talked about.

Challengertn: the 902 heads are the same as the 346 and 452, Its just when testing was done the 346 and 452 flowed slightly better than the 902 but it was real minimal.

Always glad to be of service

Christian




------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2000, 06:38 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
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Christan, I plan on hopeing to run low 12s maybe even high 11s. Right now im running mid 12s. Im going to change tires this year to save a little weight. Tire ratio wise. Im going to be running 29 1/2 by 9s this year and I was running 30 1/2 by 10 1/2. So that should help a little what do you think? Also im hopeing to get aftermarket heads to save a little weight and increase performance. This road runner is all steel bone stock other than engine and tranny. I took out the stock 383 and 4-speed tranny. Didnt want to hurt them. The car only has 32,000 miles so its worth some money. Next year im going to switch the drive train in the road runner into the 68 Charger R/T that I bought. Its got a lot more miles and its not so good in shape. As far as im concerned its a perfect drag car. And it will be alot lighter when im done with it especially removing all the seats and gas tank etc....So even with the drive train I have I could swap into the Charger and run 11s with the differance in weight. But I would like to do it with the Road Runner this season coming up. So what all do you suggest? Thanks in adavance again,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #11  
Old 02-29-2000, 04:28 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
Posts: 141
Question

What do you think????


Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2000, 04:19 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
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ICEMAN sorry it took so long to get back to you. I ran the numbers through the computer and low 12's high 11's should not be a problem. You almost could use a 4.88 gear or 4000 stall. This would drop your ET definitely to high 11's. On a good run possibly to mid 11's. With just the changes to the heads an tires I am showing approxamitely a 12.10. Now I guesstamated on a few things such as the cars weight and your weight. But that should be close.

Christian


------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360

[This message has been edited by ChristianCuda (edited February 29, 2000).]
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  #13  
Old 03-04-2000, 04:28 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
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Christian,

Thank You for getting back to me, something else I wanted to ask you is or for anyone who knows where can I get quarter panels for my charger im going to start the preping and Im looking for a good price for these parts. Do you think Paddocks? Hopefully you can help with this.

Thanks,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #14  
Old 03-04-2000, 04:37 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
Posts: 141
Post

Also I recently puchased a Moroso electric water pump, now that should open a few more horses shouldnt it? And a tid bit of weight. So do you think the 906s are really worth porting or should I try to find some other heads to port that are stock. Like 915s or something like that?

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #15  
Old 03-04-2000, 04:39 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
Posts: 141
Post

Also im useing the stock coil should I buy an after market coil and if so which one do you recommend?

Thanks again,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #16  
Old 03-04-2000, 03:35 PM
bemiller bemiller is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Springfield, Ohio
Posts: 79
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Get the $19.99 Accel super stock coil. I use one on my dart and it works great. I also use the chrome box. I tried the the much more expensive $60 Mopar race coil and made absolutely no noticeable difference. Did you get the actual electric water pump or the motor to make spin the factory unit? If you just got the motor there's no wieght difference, but it does add a few ponies, mabeye like .05 in qaurter, but helps alot with consistency. Gida-up.

------------------
Check out http://www.donet.com/bemiller/ and let me know what you think!!
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2000, 05:30 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
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I got the motor to turn the factory water pump. Which eliminates the alternator. Thanks for the info on the coil. Cheaper than I thought also. I heard that with that electric water pump that you could gain up to 20 horsepower. Thanks and if you could give me any other info on go fast goodies that would help me I would appreciate it. Can you gain Horsepower from that coil or no? And would it show in my E.T.s?

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2000, 01:27 AM
bemiller bemiller is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Springfield, Ohio
Posts: 79
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The coil will show quite an improvement over stock. Since you removed the alternator, I am going to assume, this is drag-only car. I put two 1000cca batteries in parallel in the trunk. Unless you have a generator to run between rounds, this setup can save your butt late in a race. I ran with only one for awhile but after it cost me in the semi finals one night I decided to spring for another. Now I have actually raced at three day events never charging a thing and the car was still kicking butt. I have a shareware dyno program if you want to find out exactly what certain changes may make to your et. Just go to my web-site and e-mail me.

------------------
Check out http://www.donet.com/bemiller/ and let me know what you think!!
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2000, 06:25 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Location: Carbon Cliff, IL. U.S.A.
Age: 48
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Post

Thanks please send the shareware dyno program to IceMans95@aol.com. If anyone else has any other info to help me please feel free to post.

Thanks,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2000, 08:09 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
Posts: 784
Post

You can use the 906's but in the long run if you are going to stictly drag race this car and keep trying to make it faster then the Indy's will take you farther down this road. The 906's will get you where you want to go today but tomorrow may not get you any more faster than that. The Indys will get you there today and take you beyond tomorrow when the time arises.

Christian


------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2000, 12:57 AM
Belvedere65 Belvedere65 is offline
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Location: Milford, N.H. U.S.A.
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In case anyone is interested, Moroso has come out with a new electric waterpump that bolts on the housing in place of the stock pump for Big Blocks. Will be using one this year.

------------------
BFRACN
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2000, 07:42 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Thanks Christian for the info on heads. So pretty much what your saying is buckle down and buy the Indy cylinder heads. Do I need to port these to make them work? And also what all do I have to buy to make them work as in valves, rockers etc.... Do I have to use a total different combination on the Indys then I do on the stock head? All the info you could give will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

IceMan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2000, 06:01 PM
ChristianCuda ChristianCuda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Edinburg, TX 78539
Age: 49
Posts: 784
Post

On the Indys your best bet is to call an Indy distributor or Indy themselves and go over the details. I do not use them due to I do not need them the ported stock heads will do me fine and I am not Purely drag racing my car besides that I dont have the 1500 for the SR heads which are stock replacements.

What I have been trying to say is you have to look at where you are going. If you want to go farther and not waste money then yes buckle down and go to the Indys.

If you cant afford the Indys now but want something better than what you have then do port the 906's or a set of Junk Yard 452's.

It is your desicision but the Indys will get you farther and have a better design. The stock heads have a limit which is once you get them ported at this stage then there is not much more you can get out of them.

The Indys on the other hand if you buy them you may need to do some light porting to clean up some of the ports and bowls then they will flow like the fully ported stock heads. Plus you have alot more to continue porting to get more and more flow later down the road whne the rest of the engine requires it to go faster.

Christian

If it was me and I had the money and was building a strictly drag car meant to go fast and will need to go faster the next year then I would spend the money on the Indys and not mess with the stock heads.



------------------
68 'Cuda 383 Working on adding EFI
69 'Cuda Race Parts Car
76 Duster 273 recent transplant
95 Neon 2.0 SOHC best of 16.96
84 Dodge Ram D50 transplanting 360
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-08-2000, 06:17 AM
IceMans68RdRunner IceMans68RdRunner is offline
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Yes Christan this is strickly a Race Application motor. No street driving what so ever. Thanks for all the help!!! Im going to just get the Indys instead of porting the 906s.

Thanks again,

Bryan

------------------
68 Road Runner, 32,000mi.
*440 .30 over
*.528 lift Mopar Purple Shaft cam
*Ductile Rockers
*TCI 3000 stall
*Richmond 4.30 gears
*Edelbrock Torker 440 intake
*830 Holley Double Pumper
*Cheetah Manual Shift Valve Body.
*Stock 906 Heads
*Firestone 30.10.15 slicks
*10:3:1 TRW Pistons
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