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  #1  
Old 01-05-2000, 07:12 PM
mada_dodad mada_dodad is offline
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Greetings all.

As you may be aware, I have a 97 1500 360 2wd 3.54 auto, with K&N replacement filter, synthetics, 180 thermo, Bosch +4s. Santa was good to me this year, so I bought a Vortech for my Ram.

I dynoed the truck before and after the install. Thought you fellow gearheads would be interested.

RPM BEFORE AFTER
Ft/Lb HP Ft/Lb HP
2800 267 142 - -
2900 266 147 - -
3000 270 154 - -
3100 271* 160 - -
3200 269 163 - -
3300 262 164 - -
3400 263 170 - -
3500 264 176 295 196
3600 260 178 300* 205
3700 253 178 294 207
3800 248 179 286 207
3900 243 180* 289 214
4000 235 178 292 222
4100 224 174 287 224
4200 214 171 286 229*
4300 201 164 278 227
4400 189 158 265 222
4500 170 145 252 216
4600 158 138 238 209

This is rear wheel HP and torque.

According to BEST numbers, I'm looking at a 40 ft/lb increase and 58HP. And the check engine light comes on about 2/3s through a quarter mile blast. And, for some unknown reason, the beast's spark up and dies
without warning (its done this twice in the last week).

Oh, to put the spark plug issue to bed: with the Bosch's the truck wouldn't pull over 4000rpm. With a set of ordinary $12 Champions, it pulled red line. I wouldn't give you 2 cents for a box car load of
platinum plugs. LG Motorsports, where I got dynoed, says the platinums don't create a fat enough spark, and under a blower or nitrous, it simply blows out. They were surprised it wasn't banging at hi revs,
anyway.....

For $3895, a man would expect A BIT MORE than 58 horsepower, don'tcha think?!?!

Quarter mile times? Oh, before, at my quarter mile bridge, 74mph. After, 82mph. Why? Well, I have a "one legged" truck (open rear end).

But it sure sounds nice (I'm trying to be positive here).

And yes, I am going to call Vortech first thing tomorrow.

The truck feels a lot more responsive, regardless.

Now I need to pick your brains, fellow rodders.

There are 2 fuel injectors in the plenum that goes with the Vortech. They activate based on the amount of boost present. I disconnected one (because it just felt like it was choking, don't ask me how I know), made my tests again, and the check engine light did not come on. So, this 'bug' is fuel related at the very least.

How do you get the check engine light codes? Where do I find out what they mean? I'm not a stranger to this; however, I throw myself on your good will and mercy for this desired information, else I will have to go
to the dealer, and God knows, I've already spent more money on this project than I dare think.

Thanks for your feedback. You are all good people.

Wheezing in Dallas
Mike
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2000, 09:26 PM
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kpzbee kpzbee is offline
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Lightbulb

To get codes, cycle the key on/off for 3 times ending up in the on position & count the flashes the ck engine lite makes. This will give you a GENERIC dtc which will help point you in the right direction.(code 55 is the end & you usually get a 12 to start with)I see you found out that those plat plugs are junk also - My MSD eats those up quick - Can't beat those Champs in a mopar no matter what others say. Let us know what code you come up with. ps I have a new 3.91 factory gear & a good used Trac lock for that 9.25 rear if your interested!
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2000, 07:06 PM
mada_dodad mada_dodad is offline
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KPZBEE, you are reading my mind, bro. Email me offline at mada_dodad@yahoo.com.

I'm interested.

Mike

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  #4  
Old 01-08-2000, 05:51 AM
MOPAR NUT MOPAR NUT is offline
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Red face

I'M VERY SURPRISED IN THE TOTAL GAIN FROM A VORTECH. I WOULD DEFINATELY THINK IT WOULD BE MORE. YOU KNOW FOR A FEW EXTRA DOLLARS, YOU COULD HAVE GOTTEN A GREAT PACKAGE FROM KENNE BELL AND NOT JUST A BLOWER. DID YOU CALL VORTECH FOR ANY ANSWERS?? GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECTS.....
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2000, 06:16 AM
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MADA DODAD, been trying to e mail you but that address wont work. My address is
kpz70@sssnet.com I'll wait to hear from you.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2000, 08:41 PM
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RM Indy RM Indy is offline
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Question

Hi Mada
Ahhh the sound of a blower is sweet music!
The art of making them work properly isn't easy or cheap(sorry). Ford seems to have done something right with the Lightning(did I say that,,,,slap me)Seen them run 14 flat at my track. Truckin Nov. issue Pg.50 had a good article called "Factory Hot Rod Truck Shootout". Most were making in the 85-90 hp range with Kenne Belles, Eaton, Vortech & Whipple chargers.Headers ,catbacks & other mods were done.Wasn't exactly factory but special order except for the Silverado SS(SEMA/Proto not in production)Funny thing was the fastest ran 14.71@93.61mph
I have'nt been around in a while so I'm not familiar with your trucks particulars.
First things first. How much boost are you running? Probably 6lbs.on a S trim with the hp your getting.
You don't mention anything about electronics but plugs. Wires,coil,msd,stock computer? Did Vortec supply a new computer or module? They should've.
Ok you've got good intake with the Vortech but how are you getting it out. If your running a stock exhaust your choking the motor. Ever stick a bannana in someones tailpipe? You put on a good set of headers,hi flow catalytic & good catback setup & it should bump that hp up alot.(another35-50 with the right electronics)
Did you put in a blower grind cam? You might need one also.
You want to be running bigger wires than stock(8-8.5mm) & gap the plugs larger so the computer doesn't reduce coil output. That will give you a "fat" enough spark to burn the extra fuel from the Vortec injectors. Couple of guys at the track where I bracket race my truck had problems with those +4's as well.I run the reg platinum over gapped on 8mm Taylor wires.
As far as your gears go those 3.9 will help as will the posi. My 96 Indy came factory with 3.54 and the suregrip. I swapped them for the 3.92 Richmonds(4.16approx with M/T Street E/T's). Once the huffer's workin you'll need that posi(or have to rotate tires weekly).
How about some more of those details?

I had the codes but reformatted one of my hard drives recently & oops. Now I have to find them too. I'll find them & post the address.
Hope your giving Lightnings the bird real soon!

:-)BLAIR@WOT
96Ram Indy
2X4Drop & Most
Bolt ons
(no/s.c./nitro/cam)
259hp r/w(Dragstrip Plus)
Season's Best
14.49@93.40mph/600'elv.@85F
4035lbs




[This message has been edited by RM Indy (edited January 08, 2000).]
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2000, 04:14 AM
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9dodge 9dodge is offline
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I'm gonna speak up here, and I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way.
I've seen some CHASSIS dyno hp results posted on some of these boards and am very surprised by what is posted. The numbers are very high for chassis dyno results. It seems no one is losing any horsepower thru the drivetrain, which usually zaps about about 90-100 horse. I must also add I've chassis dynoed and engined dynoed all my race engines. 375hp on the motor equates to about 275-280 at the rear wheels. And we all know what it takes to make 375horse on a small block. Please, I don't want anyone to read this the wrong way, this is just an observation from MY view.
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2000, 06:36 AM
Toe Toe is offline
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True, there is always a substanial drop in hp through the drive train Example, I put a K&N filter kit on my ss/t and I was getting 220hp at the rear wheels, judged by one of those G-Tech meters, which could be off by a bit. But I figure that I have about 270hp coming from the engine. Yes/No?

Tony
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2000, 03:06 PM
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RM Indy RM Indy is offline
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Hey All
Mada,,,,how much for the dyno pass at LG?
Ran what I think your #'s would be threw Dragstrip Plus & based on 4700lb(R/C L/B) with 30" of rubber on 3.54s 1/4 ET 16.7 give or take. You might want to talk to a guy I was talking to back in the summer. He was running a 97 SST with a Vortech down in Florida. His name is Patrick & he runs RD Development. He has a web site under the same name & sells ported tb's & other goodies for magnum motors. Probably give you some good tips on getting that Vortech to run better.
Tony your numbers sound close at engine but I would think the rear wheel number's are a bit high. I figure I'm losing in the 83hp range running synthetics in the motor, tranny & rear end in my 96 Indy (predessor to SST).
What color's the SST by the way?
:-)BLAIR@WOT
342@M 259@RW

------------------
RM Indy
@WOT
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2000, 08:04 PM
Toe Toe is offline
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I was kinda thinking that my numbers were a bit high as well, untill I ran a 15.75 in the quarter 1/4mile and a 0-60 of 7.4sec. Doing the calculations it appears that the numbers are quite close. A 25hp gain just of an air filter kit is dam good. My SS/T is black, looks great when clean, just impossible to get clean, should of gotten it in forest green.

As for the super chargers, I was personally looking at the Vortech or the Keene Bell packages, it seems like these two are giving the best results.

BTW, I can't find RD performance's web site anymore, can anyone else find it?

Tony
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2000, 02:42 AM
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9dodge 9dodge is offline
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Toe,

If it's 220hp at the rear, then you can add about 80-100 horse. A friend of mine who chassis dynos all day, say's figure a 20% drop in horsepower. So 220 could be 300 on the motor.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2000, 05:31 AM
MOPAR NUT MOPAR NUT is offline
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Smile

I HAVE A '98 SUPERCHARGED V-10 3/4 TON QC. I WAS GOING TO GO WITH A KENNE BELL. THEY DEFINATELY HAVE THE MARKET CORNERED AS FOR AS PERFECTING THE DODGE SETUPS. I HAPPEN TO HAVE A CENTRIFUGAL BLOWER FROM PAXTON. THE NOVI 2000. IT WAS PROFESSIONALLY SET UP BY CHRYSLER WHEN I BOUGHT THE TRUCK. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER WITH THIS SET UP. I AM ACTUALLY STILL USING THE STOCK COMPUTER. I GET TERRIFIC POWER FROM 2200 RPM'S ALL THE WAY TO 5000 RPM'S AT A CONSTANT PULL. I'VE HAVE DOWN MANY UPGRADES AS WELL BEYOND THERES BUT HAVEN'T TOUCH THE BLOWER SET UP AS OF YET. I PLAN ON RAISING THE BOOST THOUGH. MANY PEOPLE KNOCK PAXTON BUT THERE NOVI 2000 IS AWESOME. MY FRIEND WENT WITH A 6000.00 KIT WITH INTERCOOLER NOT PAXTON BRAND. HIS WAS RATED AT ABOUT 600 HP AND YOU KNOW WHAT. I STILL BLEW HIM AWAY. SAME TRUCKS, MINE IS DYNOED AT A HAIR OVER 500 HP. SO WHO KNOWS WHAT IS BETTER???
BASICALLY, YOU ALL HAVE TO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE CONSIDERING A SUPERCHARGER.
GOOD LUCK IN YOUR PROJECTS!!
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2000, 09:10 AM
Toe Toe is offline
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Hmmm 300hp eh? Now that does sound like some lofty numbers from a otherwise stock motor. The only other thing I can think of is that I was running 94 octane gas. Donno if that would give the extra hp or not but it must help a bit.
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2000, 03:32 PM
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RM Indy RM Indy is offline
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Good #'s with just a K&N.15.75 at a strip??? My Indy ran 16.01(official) with the 14" round K&N with 3.54 in the rear. You running the Gen II? gears?
Black would be my choice on the SST if I had to do it again, even with the cleaning hassels.
Still havent found those fault codes, the site with the archives I'm searching is on a 14400 or slower modem.(I hate wooden modems haha)
Surprised about rd. Did notice he was selling (Patrick) that blower for $1850 on the indyram.org ,,,,,,, maybe he had more problems?
Toe,,,,Edmonton,,,,,know hemigrl??
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2000, 04:25 PM
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RM Indy RM Indy is offline
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It seems I've been out of the loop longer than I thought. Don't go looking for RD. While looking for fault codes new info on them doesn't sound good at all. Sorry!

I've been on the S/C fence for a year now & still havent fallen off. Big bucks big decision. Like Mopar Nut says ,,,,research before will save time,money & hassels. Your QC 4x4? Gears?

Paxton seems like a good unit. No oil lines either. Seen some of the Camaro's up this way running them. Very impressive results.
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  #16  
Old 01-10-2000, 05:05 PM
MOPAR NUT MOPAR NUT is offline
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RM INDY.....
I HAVE A 2X4 WITH 4.10 GEARS, POSI TRACTION. I WANTED A TOTALLY PERFORMANCE WORK TRUCK. I HAVE AN ALL WHEEL DRIVE 5.9 GRAND CHEROKEE THATS TRICKED OUT. I USE THAT IN OFF WEATHER HERE IN NY.

[This message has been edited by MOPAR NUT (edited January 10, 2000).]
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2000, 05:50 PM
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Actually RM Indy, that is exactly the filter I am using, the 14" round one. I did have to drop the tail gate to get that though, with the gate up I was getting 15.87 in the quarter, instead of the 15.75. The only other thing I can think of is I believe that my SS/T, a 1998, does have a better exaust then what came with the 97's or the Indy Rams. Again it might have been that 94 octane gas I was using, unfortunitly I can't get that high of an octane in Edmonton. Though those numbers are with a G-tech and not an offical time, but even at that they should be out by no more then a 10th.

The Black is nice, but in the Winter, when there is lots of snow, and sand on the road, it very quickly gets dirty. Though I am faithful to my truck and was it weekly

Don't know Hemigrl, though maybe I should if there in Edmonton.

Actually here a question, totally unrelated but can is it fairly rare to find a place that sells 94 octane gas?

Tony
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2000, 12:16 AM
mada_dodad mada_dodad is offline
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Thanks to all. Responses:

To RMIndy:

My truck already had Flowtech headers and Flowmaster muffler and fake duals. Didn't make that much different.

Vortech supplies the blower of course, and a Crane HI-6TR with boost retard, and a fuel injector "computer" for the 2 extra injectors at the intake plenum.

Dyno time at LG was quoted to me at $89/hr. It took about 30 minutes to setup and make a dyno run. Their chassis dyno/computer setup gives real wheel horsepower corrected for air temp. Doesn't matter what gears: apparently, the spark plug lead gives the computer enough data to calculate HP in addition to the torque produced.

I know of Patrick of R&D Performance. In fact, I was gonna buy his old Vortech, but the stars didn't line up as it were.

You have saved my life with the 'reduced coil output' suggestion! I'll elaborate more later.

9dodge - I asked LG if their dyno just read low normally. He was pretty adamant about its calibration being right on. Said he had dyno'ed plenty of Vettes, Pontiacs, and Camaros, Cobras, and they all dynoed close to advertised. I observed several other runs, and they were indeed close to advertised.

Toe - LG told me to add 20%, too, so 80% of 229 is 286. I was hoping for AT LEAST 300 at the motor.

I've called Crane and Vortech. All projects have a few bugs to work, and mine is no exception. My Ram is throwing a '43' engine code: low current at the coil. And yes, I'm running stock wires. Crane is sending me a different pickup unit. I rewire the coil back stock, plug this unit in between the coil tower and distributor. The OBDII is happy, Crane does it thing, everything is as desired.

Vortech seemed pretty interested. The only problem they had reported with low performance was with improper spark retard. Claimed you could literally dial in 60HP. My Ram likes 1.5degrees/1psi, and per the dyno, I can't crank it down further (the dyno graph begins to look like an EKG or something). Then they told me they are trying to get a 97-99 Ram kit out to market (I used a Dakota kit), but they are having a bear of a time fighting the OBD II and fuel problems, and basically told me, yes, the output seems low, but you should be thankful it's working as well as it is.

Vortech wants me to check the amount of boost and fuel pressure and report back to them.

Oh, goody. For $3495, instead of my trusty Ram, I now have a ride I can't rely on and I can turn on the check engine light just by standing on the gas. But, hey, it sounds awesome. And what a show on the dyno, when it blew that plenum/air horn gasket at full honk! I thought the engine was gernaded for sure! And then to smell raw gas strong enough to make me stand away from the truck, with no drips located.......

I've got spiral wound wires and Crane coil coming, along with that new doomedeal coil gizmo. I'll let yall know.

Low blow in Dallas
Mike

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