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  #1  
Old 04-01-2000, 04:24 AM
mopardude mopardude is offline
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i am wondering to correct way to check for piston to valve clearance if you can explain it in writing e mail me with it please!
csleight1@home.com
  #2  
Old 04-01-2000, 07:52 PM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Biggrin

Subsitute very light springs for the valve springs. They should be light enough so you can depres valves with your fingers. Then when piston is at top center you can see how much clearance beyond the open valves you have.
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Old 04-02-2000, 04:49 PM
vsteel vsteel is offline
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I would have to recomend the clay on the piston method. I actually find that silly putty works really well for this. Put just a little bit of oil on the piston, and put a little bit on the top of the silly putty when it is spread on the piston. Rotate the engine over a few times. (make sure you are using a solid lifter) I find that it is not that hard to measure if you cut it with a razor and you are careful. If you are really worried about changing the thickenss of the clay, just carefully remove it from the top of the piston and then put it in the freezer. After its hard, then measure it. I would go to the dial indicator method only if the clay said that the tolarance will be close and you have to get accurate measurements. Most of the engines that I have built were not in any danger of clearance problems and didn't need all of the accuarcy of the indicator method. Silly putty to get you close, dial indicator if you are counting thousands of an inch.
  #4  
Old 04-02-2000, 05:03 PM
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Brian_wo Brian_wo is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by origcharger:
Subsitute very light springs for the valve springs. They should be light enough so you can depres valves with your fingers. Then when piston is at top center you can see how much clearance beyond the open valves you have.

Don't do this,it will not tell you the truth,the next reply above his tells you what really happens,I don't know how many degrees before and after TDC but when I did mine it was closer after TDC,your valves are not at their closest point to the piston at TDC,carefull when giving out advise this important,you could cause a guy to bend a few valves or worse.
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Old 04-02-2000, 06:55 PM
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My method: Set the valve at the correct clearance. next turn the adjustment exactly one turn backwards. next put the required thickness of feelers gauge (.070 .100) in between the rocker and valve. next retighten the adjustment exactly one turn. next turn the motor over by hand. If you have enough clearance the motor will turn over freely, If not it will lock up or you can feel it hit the piston , DO NOT FORCE IT TO TURN YOU WILL BEND A VALVE>>>>> you can do this by changing the feelersgsuge sizes until the motor turns freely.Iusually start with .090on both intake and exaust. and go from there. remember don"t force it. Automatic cars usually go with .070 exhaust and .090 intake. that's usually good for about 7,000 RPM Lancer
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Old 04-02-2000, 06:56 PM
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My method: Set the valve at the correct clearance. next turn the adjustment exactly one turn backwards. next put the required thickness of feelers gauge (.070 .100) in between the rocker and valve. next retighten the adjustment exactly one turn. next turn the motor over by hand. If you have enough clearance the motor will turn over freely, If not it will lock up or you can feel it hit the piston , DO NOT FORCE IT TO TURN YOU WILL BEND A VALVE>>>>> you can do this by changing the feelersgsuge sizes until the motor turns freely.Iusually start with .090on both intake and exaust. and go from there. remember don"t force it. Automatic cars usually go with .070 exhaust and .090 intake. that's usually good for about 7,000 RPM Lancer
  #7  
Old 04-02-2000, 11:46 PM
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I like that lancer,you may not know how much you have but you do end up knowing that you have enough for the cam your running.
  #8  
Old 04-03-2000, 03:41 AM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Red face

Well Brian wo, You said top dead center I only said top center. OK I should have said rotate it through top center.
a70duster made a good addition to the thread it seemed to me that we about had the light spring method covered. Nice touch Quote my posting and then chastise me to be careful when passing out advice this important. Sometimes I think you are more of an infuriator than a moderator.

another bit of info. mopardude may need is if he is using hydraulic lifters that needs to be accounted for. New lifters won't give the actual lift and with hyd. lifters full of oil, the light testing valve springs won't bleed them down to zero lash


[This message has been edited by origcharger (edited April 03, 2000).]
  #9  
Old 04-03-2000, 06:08 AM
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440 Jim 440 Jim is offline
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The group got it right:
Closest point will not be at TDC, but within 15 degrees. Check at 5 degree increments, until you have it bracketed, i.e. minimum clearance at say 10 deg, check at 15 and at 5 to verify. Clay is fine if you have 0.150 or more, for less use an indicator.

Another tip if you use domed pistons. Place a head on without gasket and loose head bolts. Turn engine over by hand checking for interference. The issue is usually with the chamfer (outer edge) of the piston dome contacting the edge of the combustion chamber. If it clears without a gasket, then with a 0.039 gasket it will never hit using steel connecting rods, aluminum needs more.


------------------
440 Jim
E-Body Fish

[This message has been edited by 440 Jim (edited April 03, 2000).]
  #10  
Old 04-03-2000, 11:49 PM
340king 340king is offline
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I won't comment on any of the other posts. I will however tell you how I complete this proceedure.

Engine assembly must follow a logical procession of events. First install the camshaft into the cleaned and prepped block. It is always easier to install the cam without the crankshaft in the way. This way you can reach through the bottom side of the block and guide it in gently.

Next, install the crank measuring all the critical dimensions. Once the crank is in it is time to degree the cam by installing #1 piston without rings. This allows the easy turning of the assembly without any notchiness. You should have the timing chain installed also. Find top dead center and proceed with the degreeing. After completing the degreeing, then you are ready to begin the valve clearance check.

First, install the head like mentioned before without the head gasket. Do not install the valvetrain at this time. Rotate the engine slowly, observing the cyl head for movement. You can also mark the top of the piston with a marker and inspect it for scratches after removing the head. If no movement is observed, or no scratches are present you may proceed to the next phase of valve clearance checking.

Place the rocker arms on the head and adjust to 0 lash. You can use either of the methods aforementioned if you are careful and dedicated to finding the tightest spot. I have used both methods and am confident in the results. You can put saran wrap on the clay to keep it from getting into the valve. Don't put too much as it gets everwhere. Usually .200" is sufficient.

If you have had the crank ground or the block decked you must check both decks/heads for clearance. If you get like .200" on the one side you should be safe and could skip the other side. The reason for this is that some crank grinders offset the journal when grinding. The underside of the journal is always the side that gets hurt, increasing the stroke for one or more deck surfaces.

After measuring the clearance from either method you can add .039" for a composite gasket and the valve lash to the clearance. I like doing this in this order so that if you have to machine the pistons, you don't have all the time invested in assembly. This is the final trial assembly. If everything clears and you are satisfied with your numbers, assemble away. I usually set all the ring gaps with a bare piston for a depth gauge prior to beginning assembly of the rotating mass.

There is one comment on using the feeler guages. You have to be careful that you don't get into coil bind and confuse it with interference. I hope this helps.
  #11  
Old 04-04-2000, 01:26 AM
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well what is top center then? I have never heard of top center,from there I just assumed you meant to put the piston all the way up and if you do that and then check clearance that will not give you anywhere near the correct measurment,I know this first hand,when I put my 431 together I checked it that way and there was lots of room but as I turned the motor over more the piston and the valve came in contact,if I had just done as you said and then fired it up it would have cost me a lot of money,if you can't understand where I was coming from then that is your problem but I would not want that advice if I were doing it the first time,maybe what you said and what you meant were not one in the same,that I don't know.
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Old 04-04-2000, 04:15 AM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Brian_wo, as I restated in my post I probably should have said rotate the crankshaft through top center, the piston does dwell at the top of its stroke, how many degrees of crankshaft rotation I am not sure, but the absolute middle of that dwell period I would call top dead center.

My point of view is this; The man posted his question and waited 14.5 hours for a responce, I thought saying use the light spring method would not give enough info. so I gave a little more. 15 minutes later a70duster comes on and says in addition to what origcharger said etc. etc.
I see that and I think alright we got the man helped out with one method. So for about a day I can edit or delete my post, I thought between me and a70 duster we covered it so I do nothing. Then you come along take my posting into yours as a quote, at that point it is removed from my control I can't delete or edit it, and basically hold me up for ridicule by any one reading this thread.
I know, unless there are 2 Brian_wos that you are a moderator on moparts Q&A board, and I think my what power you have. You can edit, delete posts and wipe out entire threads and if someone pulls a quote from your posts and it holds you unfavorably you can wipe it out too.
My personal feeling is that you held the fellow that felt he had an ax to grind with Muscle Motors up for public ridicule also, only adding fuel to the fire. Perhaps I am being unfair to you, holding you to a higher standard because you are a moderator, but with your power I think a higher standard is called for. Just go back and read A70dusters responce to my original post and then read yours.
  #13  
Old 04-04-2000, 04:42 AM
wedge542 wedge542 is offline
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Thumbs up

A MEN!!!
  #14  
Old 04-04-2000, 12:31 PM
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Brian_wo Brian_wo is offline
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my reply was to yours charger and no one elses,what you said did not look right to me so I commented to it and no one elses,I would hate to see a guy damage a motor due to bad info,that is all,I have made many mistakes myself and been called on it,if a guy is wrong he should admit it and learn from it,I have been amazed all that I have learned from the web and sites just like this,as far as wedge542 LOL I asked him to write something so that we all could understand it and when he finally did I told him he did well but then someone deleted the post,it may have even been him.
  #15  
Old 04-04-2000, 07:39 PM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Well there we go, you can't even refer to wedge 542 without jabbing him or my referance to him with the big LOL.
It realy doesn't bother me that you felt I left important info. out and you added it. I admited twice that I should have wrote; rotate the crank through top center. What bothered me is the way you went about it. First you Quote me in your post so I lose control of my words. Secondly you ridiculed my advice. And finally you chastise me about giving out bad info.
Would you like it if it happened to you? A70 duster got across the same info as you and never stepped on any ones toes.
Moderator or not I would like to advise people to be careful when you use the Quote feature, maybe Brian_wo wouldn't mind getting raked over the coals in this way, but I think many people would and I'd bet there are people who just read the posts and never ad to the thread just to avoid a similar experiance.
I too have learned much from both this forum and the Moparts Q&A board and look forward to logging on daily to catch up on the discussion. Lets encourage its use not discourage it.
  #16  
Old 04-04-2000, 10:24 PM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Biggrin

Man I made my 49th post and I thought ohboy 1 more, number 50 and I won't be a junior anymore. So I pop open a Michelob and whats this, I'm stuck on 49!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I spoke too soon now I'm stuck on 50. Not a junior anymore, Bottoms up!!! Party time........

[This message has been edited by origcharger (edited April 04, 2000).]
  #17  
Old 04-04-2000, 11:40 PM
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out of line is giving out bad info and this was the first site I have ever seen anyone use the quotes,I have replied to others before just to have them delete their own post and make it look like I am talking to myself and out of line is resorting to name calling

Quote:
Originally posted by origcharger:
Well Brian wo, Sometimes I think you are more of an infuriator than a moderator.




The fact of the matter still stands that what you said was not the right way of doing it and I pointed it out and the fact that a guy should be very careful in what he says in such an important area.

Now why are you worried about 542? you don't know half of what has happened there,you did not see any of the e-mails with the name calling or the message in the feed back area calling everyone on the board names,before you speak on such matters you should know the whole story,he even has a post in the feed back area right now that I had to edit due to name calling but I left the rest of his message,also had to edit out the part where he said that I sleep with Chuck Senator but you never saw any of that,there is more but just a taste is enough,the bottom line is that I try to help with any question that I can and I was very nice about yours,the quotes was just to let anyone who read what I had to say know who I was talking about,if I called called you a no mind who didn't have a clue I could understand but I stopped and thought about my reply first so it would not be taken wrong and it still was,oh and I see where you thought that you could always come back and delete your own post later,why would you do that? no faith in your own advice? I didn't understand that the first time I read it but was in a hurry to get going so didn't ask but I am curious.


better add a disclaimer or I will hear about one comment for sure,when I said no mind it was just an example,I did not nor do I think this at this point in time.

[This message has been edited by Brian_wo (edited April 04, 2000).]
  #18  
Old 04-05-2000, 03:44 AM
DAVE JONES DAVE JONES is offline
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Lightbulb

Guys, I'm not as smart as you which is why I read the posts in this site but right now I'm not learning anything. You both have good credibility now and I would like to keep it that way before things get any more amplified. Lets shut this post down since we're done with it. I've read and learned alot from both of you on this site as well as others. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that thinks this and now that we have heard both of your opinions lets move forward...respectfully DAVE


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Old 04-05-2000, 03:59 AM
origcharger origcharger is offline
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Brian_wo, Well a person may want to choose to edit or delete their post if someone later expressed better or more completely what you were trying to say, and especialy if you were being held up for ridicule because of it .
With your tactics I am not suprised that sometimes people would delete and make it look like you were talking to yourself.

That last Quote of mine you used is one I will standby.

[This message has been edited by origcharger (edited April 04, 2000).]
  #20  
Old 04-05-2000, 05:04 AM
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Christopher Christopher is offline
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First of all, I am the moderator on this part of our chat board.This also happens to be the 3rd time I've had to step in and ask everybody to stop chastising each other.Look at it this way.....You are all adults.You need to act like adults.Speak to one another with courtesy and respect that you would want for yourselves.We are all not perfect nor do we all have the correct answers.If we all did,we wouldn't need or want this board now would we?? 'NUFF SAID!!!! And BTW, This topic is CLOSED!!

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited April 05, 2000).]
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