Need help on custom Rhoads lifters on Magnum 360

[HankL]

I would like to try some Rhoads/Fast Bleed/Variable Duration style hydraulic lifters on my 1995 Magnum 360 V8.

I have been able to find out that Rhoads, Crane {named Hi-Intensity or Fast Bleed} and Lunati {HiVac or Variable Duration} make this style of hyd lifter. However none of these three make anything but flat tappet hydraulic lifters, although they do make them sized for Mopar/AMC/Jeep.

As many of you probably know better than I, Chrysler went to a roller style hydraulic lifter as part of the 1992+ Magnum engine upgrade design. The Chrysler roller lifter for the Magnum is part number 04713439, $27 each at the dealer. I have been told that the Sealed Power HT-2225 and the Melling JB-2225 are aftermarket replacement hyd roller lifters.

I have measured a new, unused Chrysler 04713439.
Case Outside Diameter is 0.902 inches
{same as older Mopar/AMC/Jeep flat}
2.606 in overall length
0.614 inch OD plunger/1.003 long
{check ball visible at bottom of plunger}
0.416 inch OD spring/0.628 free length
0.612 pushrod socket/0.406 long

145 grams -oil free -on my kitchen scale

I would appreciate info on any of the following:

1 Would the internals of a Rhoads, Crane or Lunati Fast Bleed hydraulic lifter fit into the OEM Chrysler roller case ?

2 Crane and Lunati make their own design of roller lifter. Would the internals of the Crane or Lunati Fast Bleed hyd lifters fit into their roller lifter cases ?

3 Who at Rhoads, Crane or Lunati is the 'right guy' to get a hold of to talk about the details of this ? A telephone/email address for Rhoads would be very helpful.

4 Have you used a Fast Bleed style lifter in a smallblock Mopar? How did it perform? Was low rpm smoother with better torque ?

5 Are Fast Bleed lifters sensitive to oil viscosity - would Mobil One 0w-30 cause them to bleed off faster than Mobil One 15W-50 ?

6 Has anyone actually modified the Chrysler lifter so that becomes a fast bleed type design? If so, how was it done. I am more interested in actual experience than speculation - but any ideas welcome.

7 Does anyone have a Rhoads lifter or box that has the US Patent number on it ? If so, please post the number and I will be able to read the design details in the patent?

Hank



[This message has been edited by HankL (edited July 22, 2000).]

[moparking]

Hey Hank, I wouldn't even consider mixing the guts out of one lifter with another. The internal tolerances are machined very closely,and wouldn't mix and match well.I think what you are trying to accomplish with the fast bleed lifter would be better done w/the roller cam. i.e. more low speed torque,and wider power band.My advice would be to buy the roller cam/lifters which suit your needs,and you should be happy with the power.

[HankL]

Thanks for the reply Moparking.
I agree with you - I don't really want to try to swap guts.

Looking at the lifter internals it is obvious that the fits are precise. I would rather buy a set of 16 from someone who has made a career out of it. As a fallback, though, I have a good friend who runs a diesel engine fuel injector rebuild service and can get access to precise machining there - if I know exactly what it is I need to do.

If anyone has a surplus Rhoads, Crane Fast Bleed, or Lunati HiVac hydraulic lifter they would sell or send me to examine - that would be very helpful - especially one for a AMC/Jeep/ Mopar with an OD of 0.902 inches.

Any help appreciated.

[HankL]

Thanks for the help.

I did get an email off-chat that told me that the original Rhoads hyd lifter US Patent was 3,304,925. I used that to find more info, and found another Rhoads patent (4,741,298) for a roller lifter. I also found a patent for a variable duration roller lifter that is supposed to work better with modern multi-weight oils (5,623,898)

In case anyone is interested, the US Patent Office has a webpage where you can look up and read patents, it is:

http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm

You can also click on the 'manual' button and search by inventor name, company, etc.

Another tip is to skip the lawyer talk in the claims at the begining of the patent and scroll on down to the section labelled "Background of the Invention" where the inventor explains how something works.

[Comp Chassis]

I tried Rhoads lifters once, pulled them out after a couple of months and threw them in the trash. I noticed no difference in idle quality or low rpm power. I did notice a lot of noise that never went away even though at upper rpm they are suppose to be moving too fast to bleed down.

The solid in my wifes car makes less noise than the Rhoads lifters did.