68 hemi ss darts

[jimm II]

Does anyone here have a referale to a web site,or some specs. for suspention layout . Just seen a clone and just takes my breath away watching it leave line. looks like they may not be all that hard to build. could be wrong though. Oh ! the car was a 1968 dart ss clone. thanks for any help . Jimm II

[bbaspense]

You will need about $25 000 to give to Ray Barton for an engine that will run with the big boys, you will need another $15 000 to have the car tubbed, 12 point cage, big bucks in the tranny (727 with 904 guts) and converter, or a $4000 Jerico 4 spd and clutch system, the tires and rims will set you back a few grand. Don't forget gauges and a good shifter, then you need the body restored so it looks good.

I just read the article on Bod Reeds' SS Barracuda he built for Ronnie Sox. He said he had over $50 000 in the car.

It might look easy but you need the bucks to go with it. SS/AA is the most expensive class car to build I think.

You might consider going J/SA with a 340 in the Dart.......it's a little lighter on the pocket book.


My $.02

[jimm II]

Thanks, bbaspense the car looked great at the track. Realy had no idea that the people had in these vehicals for coin. Guess if you want to play with the big boys ,there's a hefty price to pay ,sure makes you appreciate what the drivers go through every week. Thanks once again. WoW.... 50 big ones

[dschumers]

You could also spend $50-85k on an original one!

[BIG RED MACHINE]

Depends what kind of clone we are talking here,,If your talking about a smaller tire version copy of the SS/AA flyers its still going to cost a good chunk of change to assemble,,Now if your talking a full,all out,SS/AA or SS/A ,either IHRA or NHRA type,now your are going to need VERY DEEP pockets,,To build a AA or A car and do it correctly you will find OVER 15,000 to 20,000 dollars in just the roller(no paint or plumbing)and the price that was quoted for a Barton bomb is way off,25,000 will not get any of his latest missles thats for sure,,For you to build a clone for cruising or weekend thrashing I'd go as far to say when done ,to be quick,you'll have 15,000 or more in it,,Thats why they call these cars "Cubic Money",,Reed's new car is flawless and Sox can still swing the stick still thats for sure,,Not sure when article was done about the new car,but,it was damaged in a return road incident at Chryslers at Carlisle,,A bump in return road,drivers door came open,and bang smashed door,Sox was sick,Reed was discouraged but still vowed to make it smooth again,,Original ones are now bring OVER 100,000 if uncut and as dschumers says 50,000 to 100,000 race ready depending on the condition,,Clayton Wright has had his for sale for a while now at 125,000 and will get it(this one was a original and was the top of the heap when he parked it),,Bob Reed,the character he is summed it up with this statement at E-Town a few years ago,and I'll never forget it........THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF RACERS,THOSE WHO RACE HEMI'S AND THOSE WHO WISH THEY DID!!!!...LONG LIVE THE BULLET....

[Locomotion]

Dave Buell (hope I got the name right) known for his Nostalgia SS cars, had a really nice '68 Hemi Cuda replica running in Stock at the IHRA Springnationals in Rockingham, NC. It was in B/Crate Motor with a 465 hp Hemi running high 10's with some bugs to work out yet.

Nice thing about the CM class is that you can put any factory-legal crate engine in a "clone" car and then be classed accordingly.

I believe Mopar Muscle will be doing an article on the car this year.

Myron

[jimm II]

Thanks for all the replies, guys I appreciate the imput.Out of my league,50-85 or more thousand. My idea was 1969 -1972 dart swinger , with the chassis set up like the orignal SS front and rear spring, 340 bored and stoked to 408 cid with 4spd 833 with the dana 60 since I already have a couple of good 340's and 360's that are internaly balanced and about 3 ,4spds two of which are already rebuilt from liberty gear in michigan {good people there}would probably be only for weekend thrasthing. I still figure it'l cost about 20 - 25K easily. Toys is Toys ..... once again thanks guys

[bbaspense]

You could build a really good Crate Motor Class car out of a '69'72 Dart. I'd build a 300 horsepower Super Commando non-magnum crate motor for the car. It should fit into K or H/CM for IHRA and would be pretty competitive. You'd have to run mid 12's which would be pretty easy.

You can use your 360 block and a set of "308" Truck casting heads, and a M-1 Single Plane intake.

You could easily be competive for under 7 grand.

If your going to build...go class racing. That's what I'm doing with my Aspen..

[jimm II]

bblaspense, that crate engine class racing sounds pretty good. Have a few sets of J heads abunch of X ,and at lease one set left of the TA's left over from stock car days . Got tired of bring car home every week in a basket. Most the ones I've seen at drags have had something that resembed a car to take home, lol Will check out the IHRA site . May even be cheaper per season than the latemodel. NOT LIKELY. Sounds like class racing could be a lot of fun. would hate to have the wheels on the trailer rust solid, just doesnt look right empty.

[bbaspense]

Where abouts are you in Ontario....I'm near Chatham.

If your up for looking for some parts there is a BIG Swap meet in Woodstock on Sunday.....some inside .....some outside.

For the Crate motor class you won't be able to use any of your old heads. You can only run the ones that were available on the actual crate motor. That would limit you to the "308" truck casting with the swirl port design available on trucks up until 1989. They are a great head.

If you decide to run the 360 horse version then you are allowed to run the 2.02/1.60 valves in the 308 heads.

The 300 horsepower is more affordable. I was going to run J/SA in NHRA but the cost is through the roof. I'd have to run stock heads with stock intake, thermobog carb, and $1600 CAN replacement pistons. You'd need a 4000-4500 stall and 4.88-5.13 gear. Big $$$$$$$. You'd have to run low 12's to make the show.

In crate motor in the 300 horse version you can run the M-1 intake, affordable Keith Black pistons, 474 MP cam (it's up to you if you use the crazy 474 338/347 Stock eliminator cam), 750 Holley. Much more affrodable. Also you need to run mid 12's but it is easier and cheaper to get there.

[jimm II]

bbaspense: I'm in Chatham, the one 360 I have, has internal balancing, KB pistons already alumium rollar rockers provision for mechanical cam M1 dual plane and 730 cfm holley. Also my ramcharger in the driveway 1988 I think has those heads. A set of the other will fit on it . I'll have to check to see what we got on for sunday . will get back to you for sure. thanks Jimm do you know of the Hunt brothers north of Dresden

[Locomotion]

Hey guys!

You can use any of the "regular" 360 heads - 1.88 valve for the 300hp Commando and put 2.02 valves for the 360hp Commando. This includes the X-heads or the newer superceded versions in the catalog now!

For rockers, you can use Mopar, Crane, etc. ductile iron adjustables with non-adj. pushrods. No rollers.

For KB pistons, only KB107's are legal.

This is for IHRA. Some rules may be a bit different "IF" NHRA decides to run the class but incorporated into the regular stock class instead of seperate indexes, records, etc.

If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them or get in touch with Mike Baker at IHRA or Terry Bell, who, until recently, was an IHRA tech man.

You can find Terry here and also it's a good place to get any other "class" tech questions answered.
http://pub6.ezboard.com/bstocksuperstockforum70108

Myron

[jimm II]

locomotion: Not shur if these KB pistons are legal will have to check the box in garage. And the steel bushed mopar rockers are OK this could be a good thing. have a set or two. Do they have to be hydralic cam or are mushrooms allowed? re: STX 21 old old racer brown cam .

[Locomotion]

I "think" the bushed ductile iron adj. rockers are legal. Must be 1.5 ratio. But the cam can only have a MAX lift of .474" for the 300hp Commando and .484" for the 360hp and must be hydraulic. A "Stocker" cam from one of the manufacturers will help as it has a lot more duration and you'll need some good "single springs w/damper" - somewhat more seat and open pressure than regular cams.
No head work aside from milling to get the minimum cc's which I believe are 64.7 now, and a good 3 angle valve job.
The basic description for the legal piston for these 2 engines is a flat-top with 2 valve reliefs, unmodified and at least the same weight as stock.

(Just to clarify what I said about the heads, they are all legal (within spec) except the T/A head.)
Myron

[bbaspense]

They must be treating the crate motors like stock eliminator engines and allow many head castings for the horsepower claimed. I thought since the crate engine came with '308' heads that they would be the only one allowed. Thanks for clearing that up.

That makes it even cheaper.

Do you think you can run the index with using the stocker cam? I would like to build a crate motor but still have a bit of driveability. The stocker cam is not very streetable. (340+ Deg duration is not very streetable)

I not going to build for J/CM cause the class is getting full and I will have to run 11's to compete. That's not in my budget. Maybe K or I/CM will be less populated.

Jimm II......I live in Bothwell......I have a Big Block '77 Aspen that runs 13.30's. You can e-mail me at indychamp@hotmail.com if you want directions for Sunday's swap meet.

[Locomotion]

There are a few cars in I and K also. You can check out IHRA national event results (qualifying) to get a better idea of who, what, where and how fast.(If the Aspen is mostly intact, you might get it to fit L or M!) You only have to worry about heads-up runs in seperate class eliminations, or the rare occasion you meet up with a same-class car in regular eliminations which are laddered.

IHRA allowed different heads because they were so similar over the years and I believe the Commando version was no longer made when they started the "crate motor" classes.

Some indexes are K-12.80, J-12.65, I-12.50.
You should be able to at least run the indexes with a milder cam, but with all the other things done-right. The converters used in class racing are quite loose and not really streetable, but with a milder cam, you should be able to use a milder converter.

You need to find a very good machine shop that deals in class cars or pays close attention to minor details. It's not easy, and you never know when your engine will get factored to a higher hp rating or the index will get bumped down. The 360/300 hp Commando is now at 305hp and the crate motor indexes were lowered by 2 tenths last years because they were getting fast! The 360/300 Magnum is up to 315!

But with a milder combo, it will be cheaper, easier to hook and you can continue to bracket race while trying to find a liitle more et!

Good luck!
Myron

[jimm II]

Locomotion : These classes sound like they could be a lot of fun. I think I might try my 74 duster 360 4spd at one of the tune and test to see if I like it , I'm from circle Track racing , ... so is the rule , at the end if the straightaway if , other driver gets in your lane he loses or he's free game... Just kidding everyone. Could have some real fun for a little {ha ha} money. Hope the people are as helpful at the track, as some of the good people that I've met here . thanks once again...

[Christopher]

The crate classes are very intersting as are the pure stock class that IHRA has. I suggest everyone take a look at IHRA racing,I did and I am very impressed.