051 smog head v/s eledebrock heads

[shannon]

Did yall know that a home ported (not just a bowl job) smog head with 2.02 valves flows about the same as a mildly ported eldebrock head for SB mopar. How do I know this, in January - March 2000 of mopar muscle, Steve Dulcich ported a set of 360 heads. They flowed 236 @ .450 intake and 174 @ .500 exaust. Then in the sepember issue Steve flowed a set of elebrock heads for a 318. The eldebrock heads flowed 207 @ .500 intake stock and 238 @ .500 mildy ported. exaust is 158 @ .500 and 168 @ .500 mildly ported. Both heads were flowed on the SAME BENCH! I know that the smog heads chambers suck and that they are heaver, and I'm shure that the eledbroks can be ported to flow better numbers than this, but come on. 1200$ is a lot of money. If you know how to do some basic port mods(which really is not as hard as everybody says it is, just very time consuming, espically with a dremal) then this is pretty good news, espically if your on a budget and have some spare time. Anyway, im gonna get off of my soap box now. I hope that this info helps anyone building a small block.

340 party

[rumblefish360]

Go to Edelbrock.com and checkout the magaz. stories on the left side bar. Look up "Feeling light headed" a MoPar small block story.
This might change your mind a little.
Have you ever ported out a set of heads before? It is not always so easy, or for everybody for that matter.Thats why most peaple pay the piper.
Also, how many horse's can you get out of ported head? Of course you can go hog wild on them but we are talking about the street right?
I really dont see much beyond following the MoPar templates and raiseing the roof with a gasket match myself. To some , thats hog wild.
I'm not going to use the heads till there paper thin. That would be silly...er..stupid.
HP books has a shot of hog wild, in "How to hot rod sb mopar engines." On p.65 lower pic. They have a shot after Dick Landy Industies did some wild port work. He relyed on some stuff called "Plastic Mastic" to rebuild the roof and rail for the valve cover bolts go.
Now thats a big port!!
Mopar ain't that cheap ethier.

[shannon]

Yes I have ported heads before. I didn't just start porting on my good heads. I got a set of junk heads and ported until I hit a water jacket. I even sawed a 360 head in half with a hack saw. Even when I really didn't know what I was doing, I picked up 3 tenths and 2 mph consistantly on a set of stock 318 heads. Just a bowl job and I cleand up the ports. I'm not saying that anyone who knows nothing on head porting can pick up a die grinder and give it a race port job. You have to know what works. You have to educate yourself. I have read several articles on head porting (and not just mopar stories)and they tell you what works and what doesent work. I've also ported a set of 302 heads for a buddy of mine. He didn't run the car at the track but you could definitly tell the difference. Im not saying that anyone can port a set of heads and not nick a seat or make them flow worse. But what I am saying is that anyone can do the research and practice and get reasonable results. I read the article in mopar muscle and know what he did to those heads was not all that much (far from a professional job). I have a junk head here that I have ported more and still have not hit water. And no the port is not 200 cc's either, you just have to know where to grind. I bet the volumes not much more than the edelbrock head (147 cc stock j head 172 cc stock eldebrock head) 25 cc's of metal is a lot of grinding. Anyway, the 360 in the article of mopar muscle made 390 horsepower with a smaller cam, stock valve train, and a thermoquad. Thats just 9 less than the baseline edebrock motor in the article you are talking about. But I did see the horsepower numbers after the edelbrock heads were ported. WOW. I cant argue with a 490 hp mild small block. Anyway, check out Hughes website. They port j heads and edebrock heads and they also have the flow numbers. The J heads stack up pretty well in my opinion.

340 party

[rumblefish360]

Thanks , I'll go to Hugh's later. Sounds great! Since you have ported heads before, Your ahead of the game!! No pun intended.
I'm going to do some for the first time on some smog heads myself . Sould be interesting. I'll let you know,any tips on them?

[shannon]

It would be better if you could read the articles in january - march ofmopar muscle. they show a lot of photos of the port work. But here is what to do. First the intake. Clean up the bowl area (area right above the valve seat). Start right from where the bottom cut is on a 3 angle job and gradually taper the bowl up like a cone. If there is no bottom cut then dont start on the seat. If you cant tell where the seat is then chalk the valve area and spin the valve on its seat. Where the clalk is wiped off is the seat. DO NOT OPEN THE BOWL LARGER THAN THE SEAT. ALSO DO NOT GET TO CLOSE TO THE SEAT. A large sanding role works well here. Next, If you look at the side opposite to the pushrod side at the roof, you'll see a nasty hump in the guide boss. It can pretty much be taken out completly. Grind it out to about the height of the pushrod side of the roof. Be shure to grind up, and to some degree on the sides. Just get it as straight as possible. On the pushrod side of the roof, just clean up the guide. Also you can reduce the size of the guide overall. (DO NOT SHORTEN THE GUIDE). Next, raise the roof opposite to the pushrod side until it is about the same height as the pushrod side roof. Dont cut into the side walls here. Next, where the guide boss meets the bowl, in front of the valve stem, make this webed area into a wedge shape. Stay close to the guide and DONT get into the bowl here. If you get into the bowl to much here flow will be hurt and if you go to far in, youl hit water. Next, clean up and lay back the shortside radius. This is the area where the floor goes into the bowl. Start at the bowl and go straight up. Then lay this area back slightly, keeping it as round as possible. This is why J heads stall. The air on the floor is moving so fast that it blows this turn into the bowl and skips to the other side. It acts like a ramp. The object is to make it as round as possible, without reducing height, so the air will not ramp this area but instead go straight down into the seat and cylinder. Next, you can open the pushrod area up somewhat. DONT GO CRAZY HERE OR YOULL HIT THE PUSHROD HOLE. Just eyeball it or do what I did, I borke through on a junk head to see how much I could grind. Also the not where the valve cover screw is can be blended to the port but CANNOT be removed. so thats pretty much the intake. On the exaust, clean up the bowls and blend the shortside (floor) into the bowl, keeping it round. DO NOT GRIND THE FLOOR MUCH. Higher floors make more flow. Tap the smog hole on the floor and put a allen screw in it. Then blend the screw to the port floor. Next. the roof can be raised somewhat. The roof is 1/4 inch thick. You can smooth out the hump in the roof where it ramps upward. Try to get it straight with the exaust opening. DONT OVERGRIND HERE. You can grind a pretty good bit here, but dont over do it. Agian, I would gague it on a junk head first. You may be suprized how long it take to hit water here. Almost done. On the 2 middle exaust ports, there is a ramp on the floor where the center head bolt is. Blend this down to the gasket size. Each intake port takes me about 2 1/2 hours with a dremmel flex shaft. Exaust port takes about 1 1/2 hours. DONT RUSH. Just take your time. It will probably take about 50$ worth of stones and roles if you use a dremal. If you have a air grinder, Its alot faster and cheaper. Anyway, I hope I didnt confuse you to much. If you have any questions, just let me know.

340 party

P.S. It also doest hurt to polish the chambers either. Use a 120 or finer sanding role and clean them up with some old valves in place.

[rumblefish360]

time to go and get a back issue orderd. was this written on "J" heads or in gen.
Thanks

[shannon]

The article was written about a set of 051's. These are police car heads from 1979. I am getting a valve job on a set of these. However, I have a set of junk 596's, which are from a 1978 360. The ports are identical. I also have a set of cracked 915's with 1.88 valves. The intake ports on all of the heads are the same. The exaust on the 915's actually looks worse than the smog heads. There is much more material on the floor of the latter air pump heads. This doesent affect flow much, but it definitaly increases exaust port velocity due to the smaller port which is plus. Also, the 051's have larger chambers than the 596's and 915's.

340 party

[DartGT66]

Yes you can make the stock iron heads flow decently. How much is it going to cost is an other thing. The Edelbrocks have new valves, new springs, retainers, locks etc. Add these to the old heads, guide work and valve grinding and milling and Ithink the Edelbrocks are a very good deal for an average builder. They also have potential for way more and can really escape from the iron heads flow wise. All the honor to the MM staffs porting, I still think that the Edelbrocks give a good power gain over average ported heads. For example, Edelbrocks RPM mule engine made 392 hp with ported X-heads, and 417 hp with out of the box RPM heads. I think that's pretty good.