MP LA360 - WARNING!

[Dart]

I just completed the install of my LA 360 short block and guess what happened?

I have a rod knock. I called MP and they gave me another number to call. Called the other number and they gave me another number to call. Guys at the last number told me to call the second number again. Spoke to the gal there and she is trying to track down someone who can help me.

I am totally unhappy with Mopar Performance and want them to solve this motor problem and the MP tech line busy problem.

I am starting to question my loayalty to Mopar especially with how they treat their customers.

If you bought one of their crate motors, I would check the bottom end (rods and mains) before install. This is the second time I have heard of a bottom end problem with the LA 360 short block. PRO (Mopar Chat Member) had half of a rod bearing missing from his short block. This is a joke.

[Brian_wo]

your not the first and I don't think you will be the last,hope it works out for you.

[JusHAT]

What do you want? MP is twice as much money for half the quality. If you want it correct do it yourself!

[mopartodd]

Dart. Sorry to hear about your problem. I also bought the 9:1 LA shortblock from MP. I did check the bottom end before assembly and the torque spec was off. The motor itself has been running for two weeks, and runs well. I hope MP does you right, good luck.

[Dart]

Good news!!

After getting the run around I finally have gotten some answers. They are shipping me a new short block that will be double checked before it is sent out. I asked if they would cover some of the cost of labor for the R&R of the new block. They said that they did not have a way to do that right now, but they were working on some sort of compensation for that type of thing. I asked if they would at least buy me a gasket set to replace what I wasted on the first short block. I have not heard if they will yet, but this is a step in the right direction. Overall I am fairly happy, but would love to get a gasket set. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

It all has to do with talking to the right person.

[This message has been edited by Dart (edited July 06, 2000).]

[mike vango]

thats scary,i put the 360/380 in my van.i took it for granted that it was assembled properly..so far so good for me tho'.your compensation should be you get to keep the screwed up short block.good luck to ya.
mike

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what in the heck is a muscle van?

[Jesse Lackman]

This is another good reason for buying a dyno tested engine. It has been run. If there is a problem like this with an engine I build, it will be found out on the dyno and I will eat it not you. I have heard of guys buying engines and not installing them until after the warranty runs out then the engine commits suicide. I know one who bought a 502 GM crate engine that never ran well. The cam timing was found to be 20 degrees off! Wouldn't $300 for dyno testing be worth it?

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Jesse Lackman http://www.revsearch.com

[Dart]

I agree to an extent...

The reason I bought the short block was that it was $1150. I figure that I could build one for around $1500, but then I would know what exactly the clearances were etc., etc.

I went for the cheap option and have had to pay more than the $300 for a dyno test so this time I would have been a better option.

The real point here is that I should have checked all of the clearances on the bottom end before install. I improperly assumed that since it was from Chrysler it would be right on. The old addage Most Organized People Around Racing (MOPAR) didn't ring true in this situation.

I don't even really know anyone who could have run a dyno for $300 so the point is a little moot for me. I can't even find a decent machine shop that does good work, knows Mopar, and doesn't charge otrageous prices. That is why I bought directly from Ma Mopar.

[440 demon]

This is the kind of thing that gives mopar a bad name.I personally think if you buy a short block or long block or any part for that matter that it should be assembled properly and function the way it was designed.I would think that final inspection would go over this before it was sent out.They should bend over backwards to help the customer if there is a problem.Good luck dart.

[Dart]

More good news!!

The assembly line guy called me and gave me the clearances for the mains and the rods (.020 and .015). He said they double checked everything and they would ship it out on Thursday afternoon. I should have it by Monday. They have also agreed to send me a Mopar Performance teardown gasket kit for free. I am estatic about this and never thought they would respond so quickly.

I know what I will be doing this weekend!!

[Stan Cameron]

Dart, I think the clearances should be .0020 and .0015 not .020 & .015
Good luck with the replacement.

Regards, Stan

------------------
Cameron's Racing
Division of GOTNUTZ?
MotorSports
66 Belv 2 440 auto 10.76 @ 125
69 Road Runner 426 wedge auto 9.74 @ 138
99 Dakota Pro Stock type
truck (under construction)
79 Lil Red Express Truck
96 2500 Ram 5.9
99 Durango 5.9

[Dart]

Stan: sorry, you are correct.

Thousandths...right?

[Leigh]

Dart,
Glad to hear they took care of you. Let us know how that deal runs. O.K.?

[sublime70]

Dart, I had similar experience with my,..... dare I say it...., '91 5.0 Muckstang daily driver. After 200K miles of stone cold reliable service and lots of abuse, I decided that instead of just changing the leaky rear main seal, I'd be smart and just buy a top dollar short block (first mistake) from a supposedly reputable company in Lombard Il. called DSS Competition Engines (second mistake). They deal mostly with Ford & some Chevy stuff. Custom forged pistons, good balance job, the whole deal. I put the engine in storage until I could round up the heads, intake, etc. for this "great new motor". This spring I took time off work to do the instal, and the thing KNOCKED a mother. I dont mean tap, slap, tick or rattle, I mean worn-out Cummins deisel-under-full-load-type-knocking. After 4 days of troubleshooting various things like rocker arm to valve cover interference, I took it to a friend who is a successful Top Alcohol engine guru and he told me within 30 seconds that it had the wrong pistons. The numskulls at DSS argued, but upon teardown we found +.030" pistons in +.040" holes, all 8 of them. Like you, I spent lots of time and money I didn't have on doing the job twice, all because DSS has welfare mothers building their $2000 short blocks. That $1000 dollars in lost wages and new gaskets, etc. would have gone along way towards my Charger resto, which is where I should have spent it. Anyway, don't rib me too hard, the old 5.0 runs 12.70 @ 109, (no nitrous), gets 24 mpg, has A/C, and it's easy to work on, which is becoming more important lately. When I do the 440 for my Charger, you can bet I'm gonna deal with a reputable local machinist, and do the final assembly myself. To HELL with DSS. MOPARS FOREVER.

[Mopar_Maniac]

Dart,

Is it a stock rebuilt short-block? And if so, when did you buy it?

The reason I ask is I work in the parts department at a Chrysler/Plymouth dealer, and Chrysler has recently introduced a warranty program on reman. short-blocks, cylinder heads, tranny's, and torque converters. They offer a 3year 36000 mile warranty.
The latest information we have is that if there is a warranty issue, the customer brings the car into the dealership to verify problem and replace part at no cost to the customer.
We have not had one yet from a walk-in customer, but we did have one from a wholesale account. Chrysler pays the tech the warranty labor rate for the repair.

Feel free to e-mail me direct.
Later,
Jeff C.

[Leigh]

Mopar_Maniac,
I believe this is a Mopar Perf assembly, and I believe they are about the only MP part that has ANY warranty (other than tail light warranty) at all. 60 or 90 days, I believe, and at that, you have to plead or get a DMM involved. What store do you work at? I am at Bloomington Chry Jeep, Inc.

[69CORONET440]

I KNEW THERE WOULD BE A FORD REFERENCE IN HERE SOMEWHERE! MY THING IS KEEP IT LOCAL! HOME COOKIN'S ALWAYS BEST-SAVE THE HEADACHE FOR STUFF YOU JUST CAN'T DO OR GET YOURSELF-THANKS FOR THE INFO I WAS LOOKING AT THAT 360/380 NOW I KNOW BETTER- C YA PS THERE KILLING ME ALREADY ON MY SIXPAC DREAM:INTAKE CARBS LINKAGE AIRCLEANER $2000! YA

[slepr1]

Dart,
In my opinion, you are a great customer for being so happy with the Mopar Performance teardown gasket kit for free. The R&R you spent should be covered by them somehow. Unfortunately, I see it time and time again, the customer finished last. I had an experience like this with Hedmen Headers. They sent me two passenger side headers in the box, and they still made me pay for the shipping to receive the replacements.
Let me know if they let you keep the defective shortblock.

[sublime70]

It seems that unless an engine is pretty much given to you, getting a good core out of junkyard, making friends with a local machinist, and at least doing the final assembly yourself is the only way to go. I am an aircraft mechanic and inspector, and you would not believe some of the problems $25,000 aircraft engines can have, right out of overhaul. We're not talking about a little bad metallurgy now and then, I mean cylinders where the valve jobs were never done, just new seats with a couple of new valves thrown in, and of course, 0/80 compression. This kind of crap happens anytime you have people doing things that they know nothing about. It's a shock to hear that about MP, though. Apparently trying to get reimbursed for wasted labor (as a DIRECT result of an engine shop's screwup) is like getting through a revolving door wearing snowskis. It ain't gonna happen. And it's apparently the attitude industry-wide.

[Mopar_Maniac]

Leigh,

I work at your sister store... Suburban Chrysler/Plymouth.
The Mopar Performance engine's come with a 90 day warranty.
The reason I thought he was talking about a stock rebuild is because of calling it a "short block".

Later,
Jeff C.

[AZMOPAR]

How about this - bought a new in the crate 528" Indy AL short block. Being really critical about things I dis-assembled and checked all clearances. They were OK but on cleaning block for re-assembly I discovered that the #1 main bearing oil feed hole was not connected with the main oil galery. The damage that would have caused probably would have trashed the block, crank, and #1 rod!!!! I have ALWAYS found it pays to check unless you are receiving a dyno run engine from the mfg!!!!!
This was not totally Indy's fault - this was a problem with the CNC machine work and quality control. I did pass that on to Indy!!!

[Leigh]

Whats up with the quality of parts we buy these days? Is it that people are only interested in a paycheck and don't give a s--t about who spends their hard earned $ on big buck items? What happenes to these same people when THEY have to buy? Has it always been this bad? I'm 47 and it may be bs, but to me, alot of business practise has hit the toilet in the last 20 years. Now you have to inspect everything before you use it. The job market must be tight in Taiwan. Sorry to ramble off subject, it just irritates me. Why don't they just switch jobs if they hate it so much?

[Hemi Mike]

I too am using the 9:1 360LA shortblock. Swapped in a Hughes 223/230 cam for use in my daily driver. Didn't check nothin'. The only potential problem I can see is the #2 cylinder is 20lbs down on cyl press. 185 to 165. Gonna do a leak down test to see if valves or rings are a problem.

I was in a rush to get my daily driver on the road so went with the MP shortblock. I considered this cutting corners and kept my fingers crossed. I should have taken the time to do the shortblock with people I know and TRUST!!!

[Dart]

MORE GOOD NEWS!!

Just to clarify, the block was the High Compression LA 360 short block. As far as I know it is not a re-man job, but I am starting to question that as well.

I got my new short block on Friday morning and they didn't charge me a cent. I strated looking at the crate it came in and it says that the motor was from the Cummins Plant down south. Another interesting thing is that the block production year is 1994. I realize this was the last year before they went to the Magnum 360, but is this a new block? All of the stickers say re-manufactured, so I am not so sure anymore. The pistons are .020 and the motor does not have any stickers/stampings that say "Hecho in Mexico" this time. At least all of the stuff is stamped USA or Canada.

Here is the question - should I check out the bottom end or run it? They said that the motor checked out...I think I learned my lesson already...

I am going to look into this a little further since my contact was so helpful and got me the block overnight. I was also thiking about how much I don't want to R&R this motor for the 2nd time. I think I am going to push them to compensate me with some parts...maybe a 360 stroker crank or heads, I am not sure. I figure I will have to spend about 10 hours of R&R work to get the new one in. I don't think $500 worth of free stuff is out of line. Maybe I will get to keep the old short block...

[Mopar_Maniac]

Dart,

I would go ahead and drop the oil pan. Check at "least" a few, if not all bearing clearance's. I know it would give "me" a little peace of mind.

Good luck,
Jeff C.

[PRO]

hey dart I know this bum that you might be able to talk into coming to town and helping you get off your ass and personally motivate you by doing a couple of huge burnouts in front of your house...see you Friday...PRO...

[PRO]

hey dart I know this bum that you might be able to talk into coming to town and helping you get off your ass and personally motivate you to get it swapped by doing a couple of huge burnouts in front of your house...see you Friday...PRO...

[Dart]

Hey PRO, you better not push that re-man motor too hard...it might go bang. Actually a re-man Mopar is still tougher than any Generic Motors rat motor.

So when should I expect you on Friday???

[340king]

Hi Dart,

Just had to let you know that you are not the only one. And by the way, we spanked the Walleyes over the 4th in the stilling basin under Oahe.

I too bought a short block to save time more than anything else. I had a guy that wanted to go racing as soon as possible. I had hoped that most of the machine work would pass and that would lead to time compression. Wrong!!!

The first real sign of a problem (about 10 minutes into ownership)was that the wrist pins were (5 of 8) pressed in wrong. Some were so off center they nearly touched the cylinder wall. Then when balancing, we found they used two different weight pins, 14 grams off from one set to the other. The decks were off by .006" from end to end. The align hone on the mains was just a touch up and left the bores on the maximum size, reducing bearing crush. The rods needed resizing, with as much as .008" difference in length. The crank was ground with about .0005" taper in most throws.

I know I am asking too much for a factory race engine. The original reason for this program was to give racers a reasonably priced alternative to custom built pieces. It did not work in my opinion.

[Dart]

Interesting news...

After discussing the short blocks with my contact I found out that they are all re-manufactured short blocks. Most of the LA 360 short block (around 99%) have new components in them (crank, rods) but some do not. It all depends upon what kind of condition they were in when they came in.

They all have new pistons, but the hyperutectic pistons that Mopar makes are only made .020 oversize so they have to use a "seasoned" block (used) that they can bore. They will not bore a new cylinder block to fit the larger pistons in.

I was wondering this because the block casting date on my block was 12/4/94 and all of the stickers on the block and the engine crate say "remanufactured". PRO's short block was .010 under on the mains, so we kind of suspected they were a re-manufactured item.

I have talked them into compensating me for my time of removing and replacing the engine block. They will not pay me cash, but they are going to ship me a few goodies out of the MP catalog. I also worked out a deal for PRO, since his was missing half of a rod bearing.

Once I found out what this short block is all about I am fine with it being a re-manufactured item, but they should state that in the MP catalog. I have been more than happy with their response, especially when you get a hold of the right person.

If anyone has any questions they can email me:
blake.blewitt@valleylab.com

[This message has been edited by Dart (edited July 12, 2000).]