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  #1  
Old 05-08-2001, 05:15 PM
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dodge_em dodge_em is offline
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Question

Hey guys,
I did a search on the topic, and turned up some useful information, but still have a question. Centerforce recommends their "Centerforce II" or the "Dual Friction" clutch for my car. I have a '68 GTX with a 440 and 4 speed. The engine is getting a six barrel setup, a .509 cam, and a set of ported and polished heads with the 2.14/1.81 valves. I have Hedman Hedders and run 3" duals with "H" pipe back to Dynomax Race Magnum Mufflers and exit out 2½" pipes. Gears are 3.91 Sure Grip in an 8¾ rear end. My question is this. I am going to use this car primarily as a summer weekend car. Spirited driving is a given, with an occasional embarrassing of a Blue oval or Bowtie driver. I may run it down the strip from time to time. A lot of you praise the dual friction clutch, and it seems to be a great product. But at twice the price of the Centerforce II, is it a better clutch for my situation? With the larger cam, and the fact that it will see very little strip action, what is the recommendations here. My stock clutch was fading, and I toasted it last Saturday, so I need to be getting a new one. The more responses the merrier, as I will probably order a new clutch by the end of this week. I just wanted to make an educated decision. Also, I was reading some comments on the fact that some were putting a block under the clutch pedal to prevent pushing the pedal in too far. Is this personal preference, or is there a danger of doing this? Facts and not heresay would be appreciated on that topic.

Thanks,
Cra
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2001, 09:32 AM
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dodge_em dodge_em is offline
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Exclamation Hello!?!?!?!?

I know there are plenty of guys that can help me out here. I am assuming that this topic just slid down the list before you guys had a chance to see it, or maybe were contemplating your answer before responding.

Whatever the case, does anybody have any input yet?

I appreciate any and all help that can be thrown my way.

Craig
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2001, 12:44 PM
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road chicken road chicken is offline
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I run the dual friction on my rr. I love it. No heavy pedal and it holds great when I dump it at 3G. I don't know about a block under the pedal?!?!?! WTF? If your clutch is set up properly a block isn't necessary. I don't know what the CF II set-up is like, but I just didn't want to do clutches every 50,000 and a stock feeling clutch is easier to deal with in stop and go traffic.

Just my 02c
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2001, 09:16 PM
Pierre Amado Pierre Amado is offline
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the dual friction is the best thing i ever bought for my challenger. i launch the car at 7grand with nos out off the hole and i have had not so much as a slip or grind . the pedal pressure is light which makes street driving excellent, one of my friends has i think a centre force ll and either he doesn't know how to drive or the clutch isn't as good.my car is a challenger and a 340 with 4.88 gears and w2 heads, hope i helped to make your decision.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2001, 12:05 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I'm doing my clutch real soon. I think i have the right crank bushing. have to check it out. I'll let you all know when its up & running.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2001, 12:52 AM
PRO PRO is offline
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1st I hate diaphragm pressure plates,because there NOT rebuildable and you have approx 18 fingers that contact the t/o brg which are prone to wearing out because they are rather thin.2nd I do and dont like semi-metallic discs,I do because they grab like no tomorrow,with slicks theres nothing better,but I dont because they will eat up your pressure plate facing and your flywheel facing,mine both needed resurfacing in 8K,mind you Im hard on it,I also dont like them because the semi metallic pads expand when hot altering where your release point is and the expansion makes it harder to bang gears because they grab harder when hot.So...heres what I run in my 65 Valiant 360 4 spd(best of 12.02)which is a daily driver,I run a Borg&beck Pressure plate rated at 3600lbs with a stock type rag disc,I like this P/P because I can have it totally rebuilt for $70 anytime including new springs,fingers,rollers and surfacing,I like the stock disc because its forgiving meaning less parts breakage,available alsmost anywhere and for $32 it has a 1 year warranty which by the way is the drawback the disc last about 12K.Just my thoughts from real world experience.........PRO............
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Old 05-11-2001, 01:39 AM
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charger_dan charger_dan is offline
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Default My two bits

Dodge em:

1. Go with the Dual Friction. A very good idea with a 440; especially if you're getting any kind of traction at all.
2. The proper way to set your clutch adjustment is by measuring the "air gap". This is in effect how much space you have between the clutch disc and pressure plate/flywheel with the pedal fully depressed. I believe it's .030"-.040" for a diaphragm pressure plate.
3. Consult "Clutch and Flywheel Handbook" by Tom Monroe for a complete explanation of this adjustment, or ask Centerforce what they recommend. With proper adjustment, you don't have to worry about your clutch pedal being "pushed in too far".
4. For the street, the diaphragm design is the way to go. Period. You're not going to get a better overall clutch (good holding power/low pedal pressure). Borg & Beck designs are sturdy, and yes, easily rebuildable, but with plate loads over about 2,700# you're beginning to stress the factory linkage. And your leg. I've ran both. Go with the diaphragm.
Dan
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Old 05-11-2001, 09:13 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Hey PRo;

Who and where can I get my Hays rebuilt...Hays?
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2001, 02:51 AM
PRO PRO is offline
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rumblefish I use a local guy,Hes an old timer who used to race Pikes peak,Im very fortunate no doubt,back in the day there used to be alot of clutch and brake rebuilders.Hey charger dan,youve never run a friction disc before if you had youd realize what every racer already knows,youll have to adjust it hot and it will over disengage cold,do you even know what banging gears means?dodge em asked for facts not here say,Ive run 4 spd s for 25 yrs and yes i have a very strong left leg,it goes with the territory...so what,it keeps punks that are used to fwd clutches(diaphragm) from stealing your hotrod,theyre too wimpy to push in the clutch........PRO...
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2001, 08:09 AM
Pierre Amado Pierre Amado is offline
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PRO I HAVE BEEN BANGING GEARS FOR ABOUT 15 YEARS NOW AND ONCE I TRIED THE CENTRE FORCE DUAL FRICTION IT WAS NIGHT AND DAY, NOT TO SAY THE "OLD" CLUTCHES AREN'T GOOD BUT FOR CRUISING AND DRAG STRIP DUTY YOU REALLY CAN'T BEAT THE CENTRE FORCE. IF YOU LIKE THE HEAVY PEDAL PRESSURE THATS WHAT YOU LIKE BUT THE CENTRE FORCE IS JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER, NOT TRYING TO PISS YOU OFF, BUT IT REALLY IS AN AWESOME CLUTCH YOU SHOULD GIVE IT A TRY.
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2001, 08:41 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Question

PRo;

Sounds like alot of swelling from heat on that thing. It almost sounds bad. How do you adjust the C force clutch to compensate for this under/over adjusting problem? Lord knows we don't need to be playing with this thing on the street all the time.
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2001, 08:55 AM
Pierre Amado Pierre Amado is offline
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I'VE ADJUSTED MY C-FORCE ONCE IN THE LAST 5 YEARS OF RACING AND STREET DRIVING, I ONLY HAD TO SET IT AFTER I BROKE IT IN
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2001, 01:29 AM
CaptNemo CaptNemo is offline
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I had a 67 GTX with a similar combo, but single 4 bbl, and abused an awfull lot of clutches in daily driving and gear banging. McLoud redrilled a flywheel to allow the using a Long style pressure plate. That was the only thing that I could get to live more than about 3 - 4 months. I refused to use a diaphram clutch, as they did not offer enough spring pressure, and tended to not engauge if over centered ( the pedal would stick to the floor, NOT the thing to have happen during a 6,700 RPM power shift )
I had tried about everything, including a 6 puck metallic faced, sprung hub disk with the Borg & Beck pressure plate and had the springs in the pressure plate fail due to the higher heat generated by the friction material.
The Dual Friction system was not avilable at the time or I might have tried it.
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2001, 04:21 AM
BILL THOMPSON BILL THOMPSON is offline
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Default dual rules

I have installed dual friction clutches in a lot of customers + friends cars + have not only seen a difference but a considerable performance advantage(I shaved 1.5 seconds off my buddies malibu withthe addition of a centerforce dual friction clutch,synthetic trany fluid and 3:73 gears).
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