Is 3500 stall to much for the street?

[70 charger R/T]

I'm having some tell me to get rid of my new converter and go back to stock, Now I don't know if I should keep my 3:23 rear and just change the converter or up the rear to a 3:91 and change the converter or just up the rear to a 3:91 keep the stall and limit how far I can go to shows and stuff. I don't have the money or room for a trailer. This is the first attemp at a hotrod so I don't want to lose to a rustang! What are some combo's you are running and just what exactly is too much for street? I don't want to run the life out of my motor. (440+60,509,10.5 to 1,M1 single plane) 4000lbs?

[rumblefish360]

O.K. this is the deal !!!
1. Make up your mind on what it is exactly what you want!
2. Make a plan and stick to it.
3. Ask questions at car & club meets with the guys who run the car.
4. Get a mopar performance catolog, in the back they have tips on how to get your car into a certain time zone. all the way down to
8.90 sec in the quarter mile. These tips are just that....tips. And you my have to try something thats not listed .
5. Get the mopar chassis book. It will aid your project. It may also not have every trick you need, but it should be good enuff.
6. Understand that u only have a 3speed trans. , so your at a disadvantage to have the best of both worlds.
While 3.23's will give you an abilty to crusie,they will not provide a quick and crazy take of that a 3.91 or higher (#) gear will give. And just the reverse.
The 3.91's won't crusie like 3.23's.
Prhaps a Gear Venders overdrive unit?
The Eng. you have sounds like a great start.
The stall is something that works with the cam & comp. and will have to match. A missmatch will cause poor perfor. and a unhappy car/driver.
Your almost in a catch 22 .?

[Stan Cameron]

70 charger, also keep in mind that a 3500 stall would stall around 3500 (depends on torque) with a trans brake but foot brake it will not be that high.

I have a converter that will stall @ 5200 on trans brake but can only hold car to 3600 with foot brake and the car has Wilwood disc brakes all around with the soft pads.

A 3500 on the street will build alot of heat. Will slip at lower rpm's, which heats fluid and uses alot of gas.

Good luck with your project.

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Cameron's Racing
Division of GOT NUTZ?
MotorSportz
66 Belv 2 440 auto 10.76 @ 125
69 Road Runner 426 wedge auto 9.74 @ 138
99 Dakota Pro Stock type
truck (under construction)
79 Lil Red Express Truck
96 2500 Ram 5.9
99 Durango 5.9

[rat roaster]

If the converter is good keep it ,put in the 3.91 gears and run a 28 inch or taller rear tire .Run a good tranny cooler,watch your tranny oil color if it turns brown its getting hot if not you are ok. I run 4.10 gears and a 3800 converter , 28 in tires and have no problems. At 60 mph I turn around 3500 rpm .I have 4 years on this combo ,street and track .

[This message has been edited by rat roaster (edited August 21, 2000).]

[DartGT66]

I run a 3500-3800 stall converter with 3.23 gears for many years with no problems. I think a high stall converter with high gears is way better in a streeter than a low stall and low gears, Or even high stall and low gears. With a high stall and high gears you can still cruise at highway speeds with pretty low rpm. Going from stock to 3500 stall raised the rpm at 60 mph about2-300. The converter is still within its slipping range but since you do not use a lot of power in cruising, there will not be much extra heat because of that. Just a regular small external cooler is all I use. I have used TCI, T/A and Dynamic converters with this kind of set up and they seem to work. As far as the performance goes, there have been tests made and according to them you get most of the performance gain with the converter only, the gears are nowhere near that important. A car with a high stall converter and high gears is quicker than a car with a low stall speed and low gears. Currently I drive with 4.10 gears, 30" tires and 5000+ stall speed in the streets, and I have no complaints. In the regular traffic the rpms very seldom go over 3000 rpm, but the rpms are there if you need them.

[Rob Voyles CA]

I've been thinking about this topic for awhile now....

So would you say you would feel safe making a 1000 mile round trip (to a show or something)with a 3000-3500 stall convertor, 3.23 gears and a tranny cooler?

Anybody else have an opinion on this?

[rat roaster]

That combo would make me worry.(3500 & 3.23)I have never tried it though. I have a friend who did this in a street rod and he cooked the tranny travelling through the mountains.I would think the quality of the torque converter could make or break the combo.A cheap low efficient high stall will make alot of heat, where as a efficient high stall wont make as much heat .

[LA360Dart]

my 2 cents if you use the converter you are going to burn up transmissions and any mileage will be lost to the stall also you will need to run way above the speed limit in high gear to keep converter locked up or run down the highway in second to prevent the converter from putting to much heat into the tranny. example 3800 rpm with 3.23 and 27" tire is 93 mph. not a reasonable combo. try a 3.55 with a 28" tire 70 mph is 3000 rpm, I would use the 3.55's and a 2000 to 2200 rpm conveter. or 26.5" tire and 3.55's and your rpms at 70 will be 3150 rpm. remeber taller tire has bigger foot print so car can hook. last 3.91's and 28" tire at 3800 is 80 mph, even 4.3's is 73 mph at 3800 rpm. Best compromise is 3.55' and a low 2000/2400 rpm converter with 28" tall tire. this should be your best option should leave hard enough and still get down the highway.without killing you mileage. hope this helps

[DartGT66]

LA360Dart, according to my experience that is not true. I have used this kind of set ups fpr years, and they have worked for me. The 3800/3.23 combo was driven for 15000 miles, it was capable of low twelves with regular street tires and the mileage on highway was 12mpg. My current car with the 5000+ stallspeed runs low 10's in street trim, weighs 3370 lbs has 4.10 gears with 30" high tires and gets over 10 mpg. It has been run for about 5000 miles with no heat related trans problems what so ever. I suggest you try this before you make severe statements.

[Gbob]

So how does a 2500 stall sound with 3.91's, 28" tires. 10:1 440, .484/284 cam advanced 4 degrees?

[69CORONET440]

YA KNOW I LIKE MY 4SP EVEN MORE NOW!

[OZCHARGA]

Interesting point you guys made about burning up the trans on long trips. I have a 360, 727 with 3500 stall and 9" with 3.00 gears & 29" Sportsman Pro tires, which means an efective gear of approx 2.80!!

I've been running this combo on the the street for nearly 10 years, have pounded the track with 4.56 gears & N2O (Detroit Locker), driven to events 500 miles away with the cruiser gears and have NEVER had a trans problem.

I change the fluid'filter once a year depending on abuse & run a BIG conventional trans cooler right behind the grille where it gets blasted by cold air on a drive.

Granted, with the cruiser gears there really isnt that much get up & go down low, but I can live with that on the street. Short of running a 5-6 spd manual or overdrive auto trans, I'm stuck with what I've currently got but it works so far so who cares!!

[LA360Dart]

DartGT66 not to get into an argument, I have run a 3800 rpm conveter and 3.55 in a 71 Demon
with a L60X15 I cooked a 727 even with a 20000btu trans cooler the engine was a 340 9:1 with a 484/284 cam LD340 with a TQ car ran 13.20's at 103 mph car weighed 3000 lbs and trany got overheated driving to a race. Had to have car towed home. Very embarassing

[DAVE JONES]

Gents, I gotta add my .02 here even if its only worth .01. I'm not as experienced as alot of you guys but it seems to me that with this preticular topic that is being discussed and the MASSIVE amount of variables that can determine success or failer with any of these combos, I think that anyone of these are good since I have alot of personal mopar buddies that run the full range of combos and even more extreme than you are saying. Just my opinion and nothing more. I wont ever run mopar valves again no matter how many people might tell me they are great. I wont believe it since I popped the head off in a fresh motor I did 25 years ago....It doesnt make sense but thats the way it is for me. I have 3000 lb A body with a 340 that I am building. I have a 2800 stall and I'm going with 4.10 gears for the street since where I live I cruise under 55. Some worship my decision and some think I'm having flashbacks.. But thats probably why this is only worth .01 see ya

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[440 Jim]

Everything I have been told about automatics is keep the fluid temperature cool! IMHO, a transmission cooler is a must with a stall speed above say 3000 rpm. When the converter slips against a load, typically a lot of fluid is recirculated in the torque converter, so it will be hotter than the fluid in the sump.

What experiences with trans temp do people have?

LA360Dart, what did the trans. temp gauge say when you fried that 727?

70Charger R/T, I like your engine combo and recommend keeping the 3500 converter and going to as high numerically as you can stand with the rear gears, say 3.91.

Gbob, with your slightly smaller cam and 3.91 gears, your 2500 converter will be fine. It just won't launch as hard at the track with slicks. I am sure it will smoke street tires...


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440 Jim
E-Body Fish

[DartGT66]

LA360Dart, I have not had that kind of problems, and my current cooler is just some cooler taken of a refridgerator. Perhaps you had some other causes for the temperature raise?

[Tim_K]

OK, time for my transmission oil temp. story. This story took place in January-February of 1999, which predates the events leading to the topic "My first torque converter failure" on this site by about 6 months.
At the time, I was working a good job in electronics, (I'm getting started in real estate now) and I used to supplement my income by working as a pizza driver (a.k.a. PizzaBoy) several nights a week. I used my should-be-famous-by-now-on-this-site '71 Valiant as The PizzaCar, 225, 904 with stock stall converter, and 2.76 Sure-Grip in the 8-3/4". At the time, there were no extra additions to the stock trans. oil cooler system.
I had changed the fluid and filter and jacked the line pressure to the max, and adjusted the bands MY WAY (1/4" to 5/16" clearance at the lever while held 'applied' with a big screwdriver) back in Sept. or Oct. of 1998. As routine maintenance, I checked all fluid levels once a week. I should also mention the trans. had a shift kit installed by whoever had this trans. before. It would bang 1-2 pretty good on a 3.8 lever. I can feel myself going off on tangents here.
Anyhow, as January became February, each time I checked the trans. fluid, it always had a good level, but was not so red anymore. I used to think it was just dirty from the old fluid that might not have gotten drained the last time. Well, by the end of February, it was not only brown (very dirty / burned) but it smelled like it was burned. At the time, I couldn't imagine why, I was driving around in temperatures of 15-40 degrees (fahrenheit) all the time for a couple of months!
Since the converter stalled at only 2000 rpm, I didn't think it was because of that, but after I started thinking about it, it was the pizza driving job that caused it. Since I have a rather casual (ok, very poor) work ethic, I was never in a real rush to be the fastest pizza driver on the planet. I just kind of cruised everywhere I went. Can't be getting any speeding tickets over a pizza, right? With a lot of driving in the 20-40 mph range, this meant the converter was spending a lot of time running below stall speed, thus, it was slipping and heating the fluid up too much.
Once I figured this out, I went to the junkyard and got a 4 row auxiliary cooler off an '88 Diplomat cop car. Totally drained the old fluid (converter too), added a new filter, and filled it back up. I also made new cooler lines to keep them way away from the exhaust heat (up and over the passenger side upper shock mount going to the coolers, and over the drivers' side shock mount on the return). The original radiator cooler was flushed out, and now serves as the pre-cooler to the cop car unit, mounted in front of the radiator.
Since then, there have been no more problems. Even a few months after the change, the fluid was still bright red, and smelled almost like new. Later in the summer of that year, I stripped the splines out of the converter on a good 1-2 shift, but that's another story (find "My first torque converter failure" on the topic lists and read it).
So the moral of the story is; Use the biggest cooler you can add into the system, and why stop at one cooler when 2 will do even better?