Cost of racing!!

[AVENGER29]

We chose along with other racers to boycott our regular track sat nite. They raised the entry fees again, we are now paying $20.00 per person,including driver & $15.00 for the race car. Even my 8 years old daughter cost of entry is $20.00 for the pits.
Our average cost per nite before methanol,gas in the hauler,etc is $95.00 just to get in the gate.
Its this reasonable????
what are yall paying at your individual tracks??
we run in a very competitve hobby stock class, they pay back to 15th place, 1st place pays on a regular nite $300.00. The average cost of the motors running in the top 10 week after week,exceeds $5,000. Where do we draw the line, after all we put on the show,without us there is no show. What is fair???
avenger

[355 racer]

Funny thing, I was just commenting about costs Saturday night at the track. Our's is a NASCAR facility.I pay $85.00 each for the NASCAR license for each of my crew for the year, $95.00 for the driver, $ 25.00 to get in each Saturday night,$ 30.00 for Alcohol, (and it's not even the kind I can drink ). $ 20.00 for the truck to tow the trailer. We do not pay for the car. We bring our own cooler and the wife makes a crock pot full of sloppy joe or something else tantalizingly good every week. We also donate $ 25.00 a week towards advertising our sponsors by the track announcer. I add up for the 4 crew people,it's $ 100.00 + fuel $ 50.00 + we average replacing 1 tire a week @ $130.00, plus a stop on the way for ice,rolls etc.,another $8.00, $4.00 for welder,&
$ 3.00 for program book,= $ 295.00 total . I didn't even turn a lap yet. The payout is as follows: 1st place $600.00, 2nd. $250,5th $125.00 down to $85.00 for 26th. Even if I come in 2nd.,I lost money. Good thing this is only a hobby. Yes,we are fortunate to have very good sponsors, but it still cost me money. Our engines are about $12,000 and $ 2500.00 once a year to freshen.
The main class here in the NE is the Modifieds. These guys run the same engines we do, but are allowed to run a 4 barrel carb.,this is the only difference in motors.
They run a 30 lap feature, and get paid $ 2500 for the win. They have round figures 60 cars, and we have 30 cars. Entrance fees and costs are identical. Management will not let us run a 4 barrel,or longer features.There answer was " WE WANT TO KEEP THE MODIFIEDS AS THE MAIN EVENT"
Do you think this is fair ? We have lost 7 cars this year alone when they raised the gate fee to $25.00 a person,and alcohol is now $ 2.60 a gallon, gas for the truck is $ 1.79 for regular. Some of the small teams cannot afford this kind of cost spiral.
"The Old Man"

[racing roadrunner]

i just hope the prices dont go up at my track it cost my $15.00 dollars to get me and car in race and 15.00 for every person pays 300.00 to win 250.00 sec 200.00 third 150.00 forth minus 10.00 on down to 10 spot minis 5.00 from 10 to 24 if my track starts charging the way u guy get charged my racing will be over

[DYNO360]

Interesting to see that our track (in middle Tennessee) isn't the only one that is raising prices. Our pit entry fee went up from $20 to $25! Factor in food and fuel for the car (forget about tires and wheels and engine parts) and you are talking a lot of money. We haven't had driver's getting together and sitting out races, but the car count is down this year. I knew that racing is expensive and you certainly aren't going to make any money, but give me a break! $15 isn't that bad and $20 is pretty tough, but $25 seems to cross the line. Maybe the track operators costs are rising, or maybe their greedy. I don't know. what the answer is, but stock car racing has always had a grass roots appeal and the customer base is people that don't have a ton of money. So I think the tracks that are raising prices are treading on thin ice.
Another thing that they did at our track was to change the life long tradition of kids 12 and under get in free. This year they are charging $2 for kids. I say no way! You are going to kill off your hard core, stock car audience that way. Most of the folks have large families and can't afford baby sitters, so they have to bring the kids. What do you guys think?

[sanborn]

I have been in this business longer than most, not as long as some. I have seen car counts go up and down like a YoYo. What I believe we are seeing is a response to the economy. If Joe Blow out there is worried about his job, or his business is down or his 401K just took it in the kisser do you think he is going to pack up his family and take them to the local track? Maybe once a month but not every Saturday night. The same can be said about the participants, some are at the point where they can't afford to race. We are in the same boat, our belts are tightened, the 3d engine is on hold, etc.

At the same time, many track owners(not all) are oblivious to the fact the economy is sour. They react to smaller crowds and car counts by raising prices. All they are doing is driving away more spectators and cars. Unfortunately, many think they are in the racing business, not the entertainment business. Aggressive track owners are finding new ways to attract crowds; better, more entertaining announcers, letting kids in free(when with an adult), bicycle races, scout night, baseball night, prettier trophy girls(er ladies), cleaner facilities, etc. Aggressive track owners will survive this economy, poor track owners will not, the tracks will close.

There are seven dirt tracks within 80 miles of my house, only four or five will survive. I have seen it before, I will see it again.

[340king]

Weekly shows are $15.00 a head, cars are free so to speak, register them once a year for $15.00, license is $85.00, pit space is $15.00 a year, etc. This weekends foray into the UDTRA pushed up the pit fees to $35.00 per head. Or you could purchase advance tickets for $60.00 for both nights. Ouch! I am scheduled to go on Saturday with the Superstock car. I hope I can afford it. BTW, 116 miles, $1.94/gallon, 20 miles to the gallon(watching), 9 miles to the gallon racing. Average race steak is $2.00. Average modified turnkey is >$14,000.00. Good engines run $6,000.00 and up. Payout is $400.00 to win.

[sanborn]

340King, wish I could be there at the UDTRA show this weekend. We have run with them several times during the last three years and always enjoyed it. Good guys, serious racers, competitive races. Hope you have a good car count. South Dakota is a long way for them! Stop by to see Steve Francis(Mopar Performance sponsored), he isn't a Mopar guy but he does have the sponsorship and he is a nice person.

[modracr41]

Until I read some of your posts, I thought that we had it bad. Most of the tracks around S.E. Missouri charge for the car and it costs as much to get into the pits as it does to race. At St. Francois County, we pay $20 to get in to the pits whether we have a race car to race or not. I thought that was a little too steep. Not $20 to race, but $20 to get into the pits just to crew or observe. I guess it helps to limit the number of people standing around in the pits. It only costs $8 to $10 for general admission to the grand stands, so if you have a family, you can get 4 people into the grandstands for what it would cost to get just 2 into the pits.
Payout? They run Winged Sprint cars, open-wheeled modifieds(not sanctioned), hobby stocks, and alternate between mini-sprints(600cc) and mini-stocks(4 cyl). The modifieds pay $350 to win, $50 to start the feature, the hobby stocks pay $200 to win, $25 to start the feature. Car count is pretty steady due to the large number of people in the community that are into racing. There are 3-5 tracks within an hour of there that run UMP, but that is another story altogether.
With all of this said, I don't think that we have it too bad around here, but I do think that if the economy goes south, things will get tighter for the racer on a limited budget, and it will make the car counts for the upper classes start to dwindle. This is the first year at St. Francois County that we don't have Limited Late models and the reason is simple, the car numbers the last two years had fallen to 6-8 cars per night. This gave way to the mini-sprint and mini-stock classes which are cheaper to run.
Anyway that is my take on it and............see ya at the track.

[Rich33]

I run a race track. Not a big, super-duper track with 150 cars a night, but a small po-dunk 1/4 mile track on City property that is ran by the racers in the form of an association, which presents unique problems of it's own.

I've ran the track for three years. I also race, which can create huge conflict of interest problems. But, that's another story. I don't get paid to run the track. In fact, right now the only person I do pay is my concession operator. I am blessed with an awesome scorekeeper, great flagman, and cool announcer who volunteer their time.

We get around 50 cars a night. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I charge 30 dollars car/driver fee. Pit passes are $15.00. From a promoter's standpoint, the car/driver fee is artificial. It'll go back to the racers, one way or another. So, many tracks play a little game with the racers, charging little or nothing for car/driver fee's and then raising pit passes to 20 bucks a head or more. You see, the pit passes make money. They don't automatically go right back to the driver in the form of pay-outs. So, the idea is to sucker the drivers into thinking they're paying very little to race and then pass the expense on to their pit crew. It works.

I'm getting 9 to 14 modifieds a night racing. I've been paying the whole field with 300 to win. I'm light on street stocks right now with only 10 or so. I pay them 200 to win and 2/3rds the field. My bomber class has about 20 cars. These guys get 125 to win with most of the field getting paid. The new bone stock front driver class has 10 or so cars right now and they're getting 75 to win with pay-down 2/3rds of the field (they're also only paying 15 car/driver entry).

I can expect 600-800 people in the stands on an average night. Kids 5 and under are free, but I charge children 6-12 'cause if I don't, the track becomes a baby-sitter service for Mom and Dad as they drop off the kids and head to the Casino! Crazy.

My insurance, through K&K, costs me $902.00 a race night. That's low because a) we're on city property and the insurance company knows darn well that anyone who sues the track will also sue the city, and b) we're a 1/4 mile. Bigger tracks pay more. Private tracks pay more. Some tracks try to save money by not getting participant accident insurance. Avoid these tracks.

So, with all of the above in mind along with consideration to utilities, maintenance, equipment costs and fuel, I'll make somewhere around 500 to 1000 bucks a race night with these numbers. Not a very big profit margin. Consider that I do not pay rent or mortgage on the property and employee costs are very minimal. If the crowd's light, I just break even.

Think for a minute what it's like for a private track paying a large mortgage and employees. Sure, they may have bigger numbers of fans and cars than I do, but that's offset by the overhead. I know racing is expensive for the drivers because I am one. But, I also know that the tracks are desperately trying to strike a balancing act between paying the bills and keeping you guys (the drivers) happy.

Trust me when I tell you this: The only people who really make money in the racing industry are the parts manufacturers such as Edelbrock, Holley, AFCO, Dart, etc. and some of the good distributors.

It's a big challenge for any promoter. And the smart ones will prosper by running affordable classes and finding ways to increase their fan counts. Racers can help, too, by encouraging tight, enforceable and affordable rules at their tracks. More often than not it is the racers who are their own worst enemies by pushing the rules to go faster and get an edge on the competition.

[sanborn]

Maybe we are spoiled in Tennessee(dirt tracks). Super Late Model usually pays $1200, Late Model(limited) pays $800, IMCA Modifieds pay $600, Super Streets pay $400, the various four cylinder classes pay less. Pits are $20, general admission usually is $8, kids under 12 are free. Car counts are usually around 100. The biggest problem is small general admission crowds.

You know, racers are their own worst enemy. We will spend whatever it takes to get that trophy!

[isky51]

Its 20 bucks pit pass no seperate fees for the car or driver and I refuse to pay an entry fee. If the tracks closest
to me start to ask for it I will race somewhere else even if its farther away. Its the principal.

Racing is one the few sports where the entertainers have to pay to get in. The pit pass is enough. I am not paying
entry fee, once everyone starts doing it, the word will spread and just like drag racing they will ask for it at every
track.

I suggest if your local track ask for a seperate entry fee that you race somewhere else, before this cancer spreads
to the rest of the tracks !!!
I do not wish any ill will towards guys like Rich 33 who are having a tough time, but I cannot and will not support an entry fee, in my mind its a lot like the agreeing to a state income tax, once they start taking the money they will never cutoff it off the will only increase the tax.

[Rich33]

I'm not having a tough time. I just wanted to point out the overhead for short tracks (not just my own) that some of you guys aren't aware of.

Money is money. Whether you pay 20 bucks to get in the pits and have no driver fee it's still 20 bucks out of your pocket. Think about it. Most tracks use that "20 buck a head" system because they make out so well in pit pass fees. And, since the drivers are paying only 20 as well, the bottom payouts on the scale can all be 20 bucks and the drivers will get their money back with the track paying less in overall payouts.

I can honestly tell you that if I was to lower my car and driver fees to 20 bucks a head and then raise pit passes to 20 bucks a head the track would make more money. It's just math. The bottom part of the payouts get lowered and we'd get more revenue from the pit passes. I just resist doing it because 20 bucks a head in the pits seems high to me. And, over 90 percent of the time those drivers get their 30 bucks back even if they do bad.

All I ask is that you consider the whole picture before you reject a track out of hand for charging an entry fee. That's just the first page of the book. You need to know what they pay-outs are like in order to make an informed decision.

[isky51]

Rich I see your point sounds like you are being fair. There are some tracks that I know of that on a weekly basis charge 20 bucks for a pit pass, plus an entry driver/car fee. These are the tracks that I refuse to go to. I dont mind paying a fair price to get in and race but when I am paying 20 bucks each for a pit pass, I refuse to pay a entry fee along with it.

[Rich33]

Yeah, that could get kind of expensive. I know that there's good promoters and then there's bad promoters, too. I guess the best thing we could do about the bad ones is just race somewhere else.

[340king]

I did go to the race and boycotted the pits for the $35. It still cost me $25 for the grandstands. The place was pretty much packed (about 6,000 fans). The full grandstand can hold around 9,000 fans. It is the state fairgrounds. Anyway, back to racing.

Steve placed 6th in the feature. He started outside 5th row. The car was tight in the middle of the turn and he was having to stab the throttle and stand on the brake in the middle of the turn to get the car to come around. That was the difference. It was a good race, 100 laps. There were 4 cautions and 16 of the original 24 starters finished the race. Wendal Wallace won, with Rick? Eckert right on his tail. You couldn't fit a VW between them for most of the race. Wendal won last year also. The results are posted at www.dakotapromotions.com. All in all the 100 laps went by quickly, in about 40 minutes overall time.

I did spend a little time talking to the Kentucky Colonel after the race. He was really good to talk to. He said that they were still trying new things with the engine to sort it out. Although it is based on the sprint car engine, the differences between them are significant, especially in the induction department. Add to this the different fuels and the tuning is very different. They are trying different manifolds and cams on a regular basis. It isn't that the car is not competitive, it is just that they think there is some more potential left in it.

It was especially refreshing to hear a driver admit that they were a little off and not blame something else. He was very self depreciating and humble for that crowd. He stated that he was over all quite pleased with the engine program, and was happy to have made the switch.

[sanborn]

340king, I'm glad you went. Here in the south, the UDTRA car is very common. That is what we race. Most of those circuit racers are very "down to earth". Some it takes a while to get to know. Very seldom do you hear some lame, Nascar type excuse when they don't do well.

Those guys race on big tracks, little tracks, high banked, low banked, tacky, slick, rubbered up, you name it, they race on it. Mating the torque curve to the track is quite varied. Most circuit racers carry three different engines with them. And east of the river there is some local hot dog waiting for them to come to their local track. And they race anywhere there is money, this Sunday at our local track is a Southern All-Star race and we will probably see McDowell, Arp, Cook there on their way home from the Show Me race in Missouri on Saturday.

I would love to race that circuit one time(if my old body would take it), but I don't have the $250K it takes. Oh well.

[DYNO360]

You are right the SAS put on a great show and sometimes you see a UDTRA (Hav-A-Tampa) racer or two running with them. By the way, will you be racing your Mopar at Duck River this Sunday? I plan on being there. How about next week at Bristol? And how about at the richest (1,000,000 to win) Dirt Track race ever in Eldora?

[sanborn]

Yes, we will race the SAS race at Duck River this Sunday. No, we will not be at Bristol or Eldora. I must go to Maine and work for a few days making an honest(?) living for a change. The next big race we will run is Charlotte at the end of June.