Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

The last 30 min have been terrible. Let me start by saying that I have a '69 Charger R/T 440 and 727. High mileage engine the would over heat on the freeway but would run fine around town. My roommate just bought a '72 Dart so we decided to race. I pulled ahead of him quickly but then the car sputtered two or three times so I let off of the gas and let it cruise to a stop at which point the engine died and refused to start again. I just got the car back to my garage. What is the problem with my baby. Let me add that my knowledge of automobiles is lacking quite a bit, I know the basics and I am willing to learn. I just have very little ability to trouble shoot. But I am willing to turn my own wrenches. So, with that said let me include that I didn't see any oil on the road where it happened and the engine compartment remains fairly clean of fluids. My roommate said he thought he saw a little spray hit his car behind me but couldn't be sure becuase if it actually happened or what it was since it was too dark. If you need any more info please ask and I will try and give it to you. I have some money to fix this but I would like to do it myself. Thanks a bunch for your help, you guys are geniuses.

Matt

[PINK71T/A]

Will it even Crank over when you turn the key
or just nothing or does it crank and not start?

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

Yes it cranks over and it sounds like with every rotation it wants to kind of a little come alive but hardly at all, I just noticed it sounded a little different at a certain point in every rotation. Thanks.

Matt

[PINK71T/A]

And you said the engine was overheating? For how long? i would check spark plugs first if it were me

[PINK71T/A]

Is The carb Getting Fuel?

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

The engine would overheat only on the freeway after about 15 min. of freeway driving, around town it would run just fine. It has been this way for quite sometime (read months). I was waiting for the summer to fix the problem becuase I am in school right now, so money is tight, but this summer I will have a job so that was when I was going to try and fix the overheating problem. This may be a result of this overheating problem? Is that what you are thinking? As far as the carb getting fuel I will have to check in the morning, my girlfriend is giving me the 3rd degree for going out and racing! So if I walk away now to check the carb I might as well just keep on walking. Thanks again for your help.

Matt

[PINK71T/A]

Yeah first thing Check and Make sure its getting fuel into
the carb and the carb isn't clogged. it may be the Fuel filter or some rust in the tank clogging the Pickup.
IF all that checks out good make sure its getting Spark
id pull the plugs check them. Could be Timing Chain
You said high mile? i would just check the Fuel system
first then Ignition system to make sure your getting good spark Before you worry to much. Hope i helped ya
Good luck bud!

[JERICOGTX]

How goes the oil look? is it "milky" looking? Could be a head gasket.

[69Dodgedart360]

my old dart used to do exactly this, whenever the engine got excessively warm.
the carb would start dumping fuel into the engine, and completely flood it. the engine would quit, and take a long time to get cooled down enough to start again...i took apart my carter (this is the only carb i have had problems with) and found lots of dirt and sludge sitting around in the fuel bowls...
i am not sure if this is your problem but it sounds fuel related...if it is ready to start than it doesn't sound like your ignition system.
if it pops lots but doesn't start than it just might be that, but listen to what these other guys have to say because my case is very application specific.

[Keith]

Do you have stock points type ignition? These need to be tuned up about every year or eventually your car will stop firing. You can see this one coming though as it gets worse and worse until it won't run anymore.

[coach71]

Not certain, but it sounds like maybe you jumped time(timing chain worn out), the way I understand it, when your timing chain/gears wear the teeth get worn and the chain stretches, and it's usually when you SHUT it OFF that it'll actually jump time on the timing chain and gears, that's if there's enough play in the chain. Could possibly be part of your overheating problem at freeway speeds too!? I think that when the chain/gears start to wear, the valve timing starts to gradually retard, leading to less power, and possibly higher? engine temps on the highway, the valves(especially intake) are gradually closing later and later in the combustion cycle, and the dist runs off a gear drive fom the cam, so ignition timing will probly be changing also. This could possibly lead to higher temps?!

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

Well I checked the to see if the carb is getting fuel and it is, and it seems to be a fair amount of fuel too, so I don't think that is the problem. I put in the MP electronic ignition kit about 2 years ago, so I don't have the stock points. I will have to wait on checking the color of the oil until friday becuase I have far too many midterms and presentations this week to spend to much time with my car, but this weekend I will put some time into it. On a slightly related note, I was going to check my timing this weekend before this all happened becuase I just got a new timing light, but I realized that the timing marks on the vibration damper have worn off, how can I put these marks back on or is there some other way to check the timing? Thanks a bunch for the replies.

Matt

P.S. In case it is a head gasket what would be the best way to figure that out? thanks again.

[6pakman]

first, you gotta get the girlfriend involved. have her jump in the car and turn the key for you.they feel like there helpin ya.that will keep her happy. then pull you dist cap and line up your rotor till it points to no. 1 cyl on compression stroke. you need to check your timing. that sounds like the problem. if its a high millage car, youve got to understand that its gonna need some work. get your school work outta the way first, take your girlfriend on a day long date, then start workin on that motor. good luck.

[Karl43]

I had a problem with a car that would not start when warm. Turned out to be too much gap in the reluctor for the electronic ignition. Did you check the gap before installing the distributor. I have found new ones out of adjustment. My gap was at .030" and should be .006" - .010". I try to set at .008" with a non metallic feeler gage (copper). My car would start ok when cold, but when hot the only way it would start is to jump the starter relay. After 1 1/2 years, this would not work anymore. That is when I discovered the distributor gap problem. I have not had the problem since. Check this, it does not take ling and is cheap.

Next check into timing chain jumping, distributor timing, control box (had two go out on me in the last year on different cars), coil, ballast resistor.

To check for TDC remove the #1 spark plug and carefully stick a screwdriver in the cylinder. Rotate the engine until the screwdriver is at the maximum height and that is a good quick indicator of TDC.

[Mach Manny]

hey buddy, what kind of car are you running, the stock thermoquad?

[Mach Manny]

hey buddy, what kind of car are you running, the stock thermoquad?

[Maxwedge]

A friend of mine had a turbo spirit that would overheat on the highway. It turned out to be the radiator was too clogged and the high rpms in combination to long running times made the engine overheat after 20 minutes...
check the radiator...
Maxwedge

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

Thanks everyone for these posts, the carb I am running is a carter AFB it is relatively new, only a few thousand miles on it. After these next few days I will get past the hardest parts for my classes so I will check these things then. I will add the radiator to my list of things to check as far as the overheating problem goes. Now I just need to figure out what the big problem is. I don't think it is in the fuel delivery becuase I checked that and the carb seems to be getting plenty of fuel. The ignition could be the problem but that is also relatively new, so what does that leave? compression? Head gasket maybe? I am not sure, but I will check the ignition before I do anything else. I am really grateful to you guys for all the posts, thanks a bunch. If you have any new ideas keep 'em coming.

Matt

[PRO]

Im also leaning towards a worn/jumped timing chain ,usually right before this happens you notice a drop in oil pressure because the nylon coated cam gear is dropping its nylon coating into the pan and plugging the p/u tube which finally lets the chain get incredibly sloppy then it jumps.An easy check for chain slop is remove dist cap and turn the crank in either direction until the rotor moves now reverse direction if you go more than an 1/8 of a turn before ir moves its sloppy,if it goes more it jumped.You could also just do a compression check for starters as this is the heart of the matter............PRO......

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

Well, while I was waiting for some food to microwave we went to the garage and hooked a timing light up to my coil wire and cranked the engine. The light didn't come on. Could this mean that the coil is bad? Also, we pulled a plug wire, stuck a screwdriver in it and held it near a ground while we cranked the engine. No spark. So I guess it is my ignition system. Does this sound like the coil, or does it sound like something else (orange box)? If the coil is bad, is there some other way to test for it other than what I did? I am very happy about this, but I still want to really pinpoint this as the problem before I get my hopes up (or my wallet out). Thanks alot guys, you are the most awesome group of people.

Matt

[Fury Boy]

If the Chain hasn't been changed than I am saying that is what it is. Had a chevelle that would do this. Man, I spent 3 months messing w/ the timing and gas and distributor. Had a mechanic come look at it. Finally I changed the chain. It was a wasted OE Chevy Chain w/ plastic teeth. The chain was so loose that it machined a spot in the bottom of the case where it was hitting. Put her back together and BOOM! she started right up!

[Mach Manny]

Guys-
I dont really get how a few degrees of timing chain play will prevent a motor from firing. Can someone explain this in more detail?

[JERICOGTX]

BALAST RESISTOR!!!

[6t5mopar]

6pakman, are you sure you are in the right chat room?. I think you would be a great marriage counselor...Do you think you could convince my pregnant wife to get more involved in the "working on the car" part? and not just the "lets take the mopar out and beat the hell out of it" part?.........

HARD,
Try a new Ballast resistor..... becareful, I had one go on my friends car and did not realize that 's what it was . We pumped too much raw fuel into the carb , then figured out what the problem was....Well.It was a heck of a boom when it fired......no damage though......

Todd

[Fury Boy]

When the timing chain is worn as much as I am talking about it is hardly on the gears, it hardly turns the motor over it is so loose, it just keeps spinning. I am telling you I though it was a bad battery or bad gas or something electrical. I changed the timing chain and the car fired right up. It has to be an old chain. It is hi mileage so even if it isn't(but I would be it is) it would still be a good upgrade and not wasted time. What would it take? 3 hours and $40 with a rented balancer puller if you don't already have one.

[mopar_man]

I don't think any of the above is your problem! I think you left it in low gear too long before you shifted and floated the valves and then the lifters emptied out. if you got fuel, spark and its close on timing , keep cranking it . give it a shot of 24 v to help pump up the lifters. if you go this way , make sure you have everything turned off as you could blow some stuff. Or have somebody that knows how to boost this way.
BEEEEEE CAREFULLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[6pakman]

i dont wanna sound stupid but i have no idea what mopar man means. if he could , can that be explained in a little more detail. this sounds interesting. in the meantime GO CHECK THAT TIMING!!!! also do change that ballest resistor. although if the resistor was bad, the car would start, it just when you let go of the key the engine will stall. get back to us.

[mopar_man]

If you read Chargers opening comment , he said he was drag racing. Anybody that has raced know that you try to suck every bit of power out of every gear. I think he buzzed the tired old engine a little bit too high....valves floated and the lifters emptied......it sputtered and stopped. it takes a fair bit of cranking to pump up the lifters again. If you don't believe me , try installing a new set of lifters that have not been primed with new oil.........no way will the engine start. thats why i said to give it a shot of 24 v to the starter ........the faster cranking gets the lifters filled quicker. i could be wrong on his problem, it colud be something simple but its a common problem with old engines when you turn them too high.
hope this info helps

[Hard_ChargerR/T]

I don't think I spun the engine to high, my roommates car only has a mildly built 318 in it and I had him beat in no time. I wasn't worried enough about it to shift on my own, so I let the car do the shifting. But I did have an opportunity to check the spark, and I am not getting any currently. So there is my problem. Now the question is, is it my coil, my orange ECU or something else. I am not sure. But hopefully I will find out soon, I really would like to get the car out running again. If you have any methods for checking if the coil is bad or if the ECU is bad, I would love to hear them. I am not sure how to go about that. Well, thanks everyone for your help.

Matt

[duster360]

simple test, remove dist cap crank motor watch to see if dist turns.i've seen then soo bad that this happens, i say this because you said when you put the lite on it nothing happend if its not electrical it coud be the upper gear was "wiped smooth" in a spot i've seen it a couple time in bb mopars. just a thought and its easy to do.